Who is the best active pitcher in MLB?

M

Mr. User Name

#27
#27
Jake may be slipping. He gave up another earned run today. While only getting one base hit in his only at bat. He followed that hit with speed and smarts on the basepath. If his pitching were not so effen great, he would still be an all star at any position
 
lightweight

lightweight

Moderator
#32
#32
billyS said:
Funny!
Yeah remember back in Spring training the Yankees played the Blue Jays like three times a week because their camps are so close.
But they always held out Matz so the Yankees wouldn't get a look at him until the season.
Looks like it paid off last night.
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Matz has really good stuff. He is just so up and down.
 
LorenzoDeMedici

LorenzoDeMedici

#35
#35
LISteve said:
Right now he is the best ... he has had a tremendous 4 starts. Last year he wasn't the best. He also doesn't win a whole lot. Maybe if he could go deeper in games he would win more. I don't remember saying just "good". If I did - I will change my ranking. He is (RIGHT NOW) excellent - but I am not calling him the best ... and he needs to do it for more than 3 years to get into the hall. Let's call it like it is. At age 32 and 70 wins - he ain't getting in. he is averaging just about 6 innings a start. Is that because he can't pitch more than that? If you are going into the hall have a couple of 20 win seasons and throw 230 innings. He has maxed out at 217 innings. He also has 4 complete games in his career. The Mets don't have a great bullpen and they haven't had one while he has been a Met. Why hasn't he gone deeper in games? It's either because he is incapable which would mean he has to take responsibility for his won-loss ... or ... management for some stupid reason won't let him throw more than 200 innings. SO .... before you reply. I am saying he is excellent. He is one of the best pitchers in the game. this year in his first 4 starts, he is the best. HOWEVER ... I don't think he will keep it up and at age 32 and 70 wins - he is not a HOFer and until he can be a stud and be counted on in September to go deep into games and actually win ... he is not in my opinion the best pitcher. Man up like Scherzer and Verlander ... go deep into games and win and bring your team deep into the playoffs. Until then can we stop blowing the guy? Winning 10 games a season with a great ERA while your team finishes out of the playoffs - does not put him in the same league as Scherzer, Verlander and even Kershaw who redeemed himself somewhat last year.
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Just Noticed this thread. Since LW did not answer your call to dispute these facts I will. And a lot of this is based on before he even went nuts this year let alone only based on 4 starts.
1. Read My Lips...Wins Don't Mean as Much as they used to. And that's Not Jakes fault. It's simply the evolution of understanding what constitutes excellence in the craft. Everyone knows that so maybe you should catch up to the times. While the Cy Young award is named after the winningest pitcher it is clearly meant to be awarded to the BEST pitcher in each league.
2. He's only a 6 inning pitcher. Now to add some meat to the argument note the list below of Avg # of innings per start. This list includes his contemporaries, borderline contemporaries, and HOFers going back to Tom Terrific with Gooden thrown in for good measure. As you can see he is ABOVE par with his true contemporaries. Hovering around par with guys that have been around for 4-10 years longer than him. Then yes a tick below par of guys who pitched 15-40 freakin years ago! in their prime. (Special note that he is the thinnest of hairs below your 2 examples of Scherzer & Verlander who are not quite his contemporaries)
Avg IpStart
^JAKE 6.38
COLE 6.06
BEIBER 6.29
BAUER 6.06
HENDRICKS 6.21
NOLA 6.03
RYIU 5.88
CUETO 6.21
STRASBURG 6.09
STROMAN 5.91
KLUBER 6.56

HERNANDEZ 6.59
BUMGARNER 6.29
DARVISH 6.18
KERSHAW 6.65
VERLANDER 6.40
SCHERZER 6.41
GREINKE 6.36
SALE 6.62

CLEMENS 6.83
JOHNSON 6.85
PEDRO 6.71
HALLADAY 7.12

GLAVINE 6.34
MADDUX 6.76
GOODEN 7.03

JACK MORRIS 7.00

TOM TERRIFIC 7.14
______________________________

3. Complete Games??? Noone has complete games anymore.NOONE since 2014 has more than12...IN 7 YEARS!! So the relative difference is Meaningless.
4.aHHHH PLAYOFFS ...Yeah he's only got a shoddy 3-1 record with a 2.88 ERA & a 1.16 WHIP. Basically shut down the Dodgers giving up only 2 runs in 2 Starts, then Beating the Cubs giving up only 2 over 7 when he finally had the bad outing against the Royals in the WS that they never would have gotten to had he not been so dominant in playoff run. Yeah let's judge him on this....Gimmeee a break!
5. So now lets show why HE IS the Best Pitcher in the Game
And that is Simple. The Pitcher has only 1 job and then a very small subset of lesser important BUT statistically relevent jobs.
#1 DONT GIVE UP RUNS...=ERA Well with a 2.46 he only has the best ERA over the past 5 years(2nd goes to Kershaw 2.56) and the only other guy on the list of contemporaries with under a 3.00 is Scherzer at 2.79
#2 DON'T EVEN GIVE THE OTHER TEAM A CHANCE TO SCORE RUNS by putting guys on base...=WHIP Again at .997 the only 2 guys in the conversation are Scherzer & Kershaw who actually are better at .974 & .946 respectively.
#3 Stike Batters Out...simply for it's intimidation factor.Not nearly as important as the first 2. Again the only 2 guys that are close or better are Kershaw & Scherzer in Ksper9.

HOWEVER all these #s drastically change over the past 3 years.(Start of 2018 thru Now) Because after all the argument is who is the Best RIGHT NOW
And now it's not even close..at almost a FULL RUN better ERA
ERA WHIP K9
Jake 1.94 0.88 12.0
Max 2.82 .998 12.4
Clayton 2.91 1.005 9.5

All that said without even boring you with a shit ton of more analitically relevent statistical adjustments like FIP , WAR etc. Because quite honestly I understand those stats but it really all boils down to the ones I cited.
 
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