Where is the provider POV
- Thread starter pawgluvr
- Start date
I think this is the elephant in the room. Ann, I bet you chuckle when you see all the posts that guys put up trying to commingle the notions of attachment free sex with an optimistic belief that that last session meant something special to that provide (who the guy haggled with prior to the session).
I agree, guys are compelled to pay for sessions for totally different reasons than the women who are setting the rates.
I agree, guys are compelled to pay for sessions for totally different reasons than the women who are setting the rates.
My best friend is a provider and based on that and what I see from the emotionally balanced girls who are reputable and successful, we do feel genuine feelings of specialness to certain guys.
The thing is: men and women think differently. The things men want us women to value them for are often things we are amiable or indifferent about. The things that stir up deep feelings of loyalty and passion in us girls are things that men themselves are apathetic about. So there's a divide where neither side feels that their passionate devotion is fully "registered" and appreciated if you will.
It's also why a small fraction of men are able to be "playas", they know what pushes women's buttons but out of practicality have given up on trying to get that feeling of "specialness" from any one girl since it's improbable and since they probably realized that the things they want a woman to value are probably of fleeting interest to her at any given point in time.
The thing is: men and women think differently. The things men want us women to value them for are often things we are amiable or indifferent about. The things that stir up deep feelings of loyalty and passion in us girls are things that men themselves are apathetic about. So there's a divide where neither side feels that their passionate devotion is fully "registered" and appreciated if you will.
It's also why a small fraction of men are able to be "playas", they know what pushes women's buttons but out of practicality have given up on trying to get that feeling of "specialness" from any one girl since it's improbable and since they probably realized that the things they want a woman to value are probably of fleeting interest to her at any given point in time.
It's hard to put it into words because a lot of it is instinctual, gut-level reactions that can be interpreted the wrong way.
I've noticed in rare moments where I've had the "What do you like most about me?" conversation the guy sort of cringed. This is usually when the bell goes off in the guys head, "Oh....maybe we should stick to casual." If you think back to those moments and remember what the specific attraction killer was, you get a sense of how women operate.
I think every girl has experienced that which is partly why a lot of girls are vague, or flake, or give answers that are noncommittal when it comes to the dating stage. A lot of women want commitment and realize the full disclosure stuff lowers their chances of commitment and puts them on the "good time girl" track.
It takes vulnerability to disclose the cringe-worthy stuff because if you're sharing something that doesn't give an awkward scent in the room, you're not being vulnerable because nothing is at stake.
People work on incentives and when vulnerability is rewarded with a judgmental attitude, less mature people will use that as an excuse to mask their intentions. That's why I said there's a divide-men don't often realize when women are being their most vulnerable (no, I don't mean during sex, I mean emotionally vulnerable) so they are unnerved by the decreasing level of intimacy that gradually happens in their relationship and wonder what made their woman turn "cold".
Women can be seen as pretty capricious and mercurial because we often oscillate through three different m.o.s when dating. It's like each point of the triangle of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
One one point, you have status. This is often relative to her place in society. Men don't see this as an attraction booster because for them status is a result of achievement. In their mind, work hard +produce something of value=status and respect among your peers. It's formulaic, basic, and "weird" why women want it so much. The typical woman values status because its a reflection of the primal urge to belong and be part of the tribe where its safe and secure from predators and threats.
On another point, you have security. Women who may have money but lack secure cash flow, assets, or credentials resort to making drastic lifestyle changes (not necessarily adult entertainment) and often prioritize that in a mate. Most men would think, "Ok, there's a problem, what can I do now to fix this?" Most women do go through the problem solving motions and think of how to fix things. However, this often happens after an emotionally overwhelming internally queasy experience . The emotional intensity often clouds judgment and makes women less likely to want to engage in activities that give that queasy unstable feeling. During this stage, a woman is more likely to avoid guys with financial issues for romantic reasons (yes, poor women screw broke guys but usually because they feel STABLE with him to some extent). Men have their own overwhelming emotions that are instinctual, people develop coping mechanisms to manage them. Many women opt for avoidance of situations that trigger such feelings. (This sounds really cold to guys who may have had women reject them for lack of "stability" or similar reasons)
The last point on the pyramid is stimulation. In less emotionally developed women, this manifests itself in drama-seeking attention getting behavior. In more mature women, this manifests itself as hobbies, zest for life and social interactions. On any given day, women are expected to be emotionally supportive, just as men are often expected to be financially supportive. To cope with such social pressures, women find outlets through their relationships so that they can "re-charge" and get enough energy to navigate their social web of friends and family. This is sort of like how a hard working breadwinner usually goes hope and wants to read the paper, watch tv or sit with his thoughts to process things. Emotionally stimulating stuff (yes, some of it is trivial and immature like shopping, decorating, and reality TV) helps women process their social responsibilities and pressures to be supportive and accommodating. Just as many men think, "Oh, independent woman? Why do you need an award, men have taken high risk jobs for centuries AND provide for entire families!" Many women think, "So you showed up at the Saturday potluck and you want an award when you weren't mingling with anyone at the party?!?! You made me look bad and I had to explain to everyone why you were so surly!"
I'm a typical girl, I have these instincts but had to learn to tame them. They can be channeled in positive ways (admiration for your partner's achievements, prudence and conservative decision as a couple, a desire to build a strong community for the kids and family) or negative ways (dishonest golddigging, bait and switch whoring, and emotional blackmail respectively).
I've noticed in rare moments where I've had the "What do you like most about me?" conversation the guy sort of cringed. This is usually when the bell goes off in the guys head, "Oh....maybe we should stick to casual." If you think back to those moments and remember what the specific attraction killer was, you get a sense of how women operate.
I think every girl has experienced that which is partly why a lot of girls are vague, or flake, or give answers that are noncommittal when it comes to the dating stage. A lot of women want commitment and realize the full disclosure stuff lowers their chances of commitment and puts them on the "good time girl" track.
It takes vulnerability to disclose the cringe-worthy stuff because if you're sharing something that doesn't give an awkward scent in the room, you're not being vulnerable because nothing is at stake.
People work on incentives and when vulnerability is rewarded with a judgmental attitude, less mature people will use that as an excuse to mask their intentions. That's why I said there's a divide-men don't often realize when women are being their most vulnerable (no, I don't mean during sex, I mean emotionally vulnerable) so they are unnerved by the decreasing level of intimacy that gradually happens in their relationship and wonder what made their woman turn "cold".
Women can be seen as pretty capricious and mercurial because we often oscillate through three different m.o.s when dating. It's like each point of the triangle of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
One one point, you have status. This is often relative to her place in society. Men don't see this as an attraction booster because for them status is a result of achievement. In their mind, work hard +produce something of value=status and respect among your peers. It's formulaic, basic, and "weird" why women want it so much. The typical woman values status because its a reflection of the primal urge to belong and be part of the tribe where its safe and secure from predators and threats.
On another point, you have security. Women who may have money but lack secure cash flow, assets, or credentials resort to making drastic lifestyle changes (not necessarily adult entertainment) and often prioritize that in a mate. Most men would think, "Ok, there's a problem, what can I do now to fix this?" Most women do go through the problem solving motions and think of how to fix things. However, this often happens after an emotionally overwhelming internally queasy experience . The emotional intensity often clouds judgment and makes women less likely to want to engage in activities that give that queasy unstable feeling. During this stage, a woman is more likely to avoid guys with financial issues for romantic reasons (yes, poor women screw broke guys but usually because they feel STABLE with him to some extent). Men have their own overwhelming emotions that are instinctual, people develop coping mechanisms to manage them. Many women opt for avoidance of situations that trigger such feelings. (This sounds really cold to guys who may have had women reject them for lack of "stability" or similar reasons)
The last point on the pyramid is stimulation. In less emotionally developed women, this manifests itself in drama-seeking attention getting behavior. In more mature women, this manifests itself as hobbies, zest for life and social interactions. On any given day, women are expected to be emotionally supportive, just as men are often expected to be financially supportive. To cope with such social pressures, women find outlets through their relationships so that they can "re-charge" and get enough energy to navigate their social web of friends and family. This is sort of like how a hard working breadwinner usually goes hope and wants to read the paper, watch tv or sit with his thoughts to process things. Emotionally stimulating stuff (yes, some of it is trivial and immature like shopping, decorating, and reality TV) helps women process their social responsibilities and pressures to be supportive and accommodating. Just as many men think, "Oh, independent woman? Why do you need an award, men have taken high risk jobs for centuries AND provide for entire families!" Many women think, "So you showed up at the Saturday potluck and you want an award when you weren't mingling with anyone at the party?!?! You made me look bad and I had to explain to everyone why you were so surly!"
I'm a typical girl, I have these instincts but had to learn to tame them. They can be channeled in positive ways (admiration for your partner's achievements, prudence and conservative decision as a couple, a desire to build a strong community for the kids and family) or negative ways (dishonest golddigging, bait and switch whoring, and emotional blackmail respectively).
I need to look at this. I deal regularly with a provider who constantly says she is "not like other women". When we are together it's all GFE and she talks about how we should get together socially etc. But we never do. Luckily, though I like her, and would easily be a real true blue friend, she doesn't get under my skin in the "can't shake her must be with her" way. She also talks about being a Laveyan Satanist, which she claims is some sort of self reliance personal respect thing. I say if it's secular humanism, call it that (and where are the Satanist missionaries helping out less fortunate people). Of course I digress.
Me, I most of all I want a partner who is a friend. The sex, I'll pay for that, but increasingly I see dating as following a predictable sequence; If the woman is not interested romantically then she has no desire to just be friend (and she is not "wasting time"), and if she is interested romantically she uses sex to seal the deal and demand that level of security from me that you speak of. The exception may be needy women, but they actually want more than friendship or they need validation and a quick ego repair. No fun there. So I say, forget the sex, lets just explore if there is common ground. And you know what, usually no common ground is found. I am not saying there is none, but it's not found.
When I was younger (I am 50) I wanted a family, and would turn the world on it's side to accommodate that. Now that I am meeting infertile women, I think "what's in it for me?" There are four things that motivate men to seek out women: Companionship, someone to show off to friends, sex, and children. If the fourth is out of the picture, I am left with three, and of those three, I can get companionship from guys; I can pay for the remaining two.
Me, I most of all I want a partner who is a friend. The sex, I'll pay for that, but increasingly I see dating as following a predictable sequence; If the woman is not interested romantically then she has no desire to just be friend (and she is not "wasting time"), and if she is interested romantically she uses sex to seal the deal and demand that level of security from me that you speak of. The exception may be needy women, but they actually want more than friendship or they need validation and a quick ego repair. No fun there. So I say, forget the sex, lets just explore if there is common ground. And you know what, usually no common ground is found. I am not saying there is none, but it's not found.
When I was younger (I am 50) I wanted a family, and would turn the world on it's side to accommodate that. Now that I am meeting infertile women, I think "what's in it for me?" There are four things that motivate men to seek out women: Companionship, someone to show off to friends, sex, and children. If the fourth is out of the picture, I am left with three, and of those three, I can get companionship from guys; I can pay for the remaining two.
Funny you wrote that, I addressed the points you made here:
http://utopiaguide.com/forums/threads/why-women-appear-to-be-obsessed-with-commitment.49886/
http://utopiaguide.com/forums/threads/why-women-appear-to-be-obsessed-with-commitment.49886/
But I would listen to a woman if we shared many interests and did activities together. Most women I meet have interests like eating fine food (must be served) and shopping. How about a hairy muffed granola who likes hiking and talking about shows like Cosmos or Monty Python?
Never mind, I answered my own post. See, I am better off with guys.
Never mind, I answered my own post. See, I am better off with guys.
I found this: http://happyendingz.blogspot.com/ before I found you guys...
Nobody has brought up the idea of scheduling a session, and that's not the topic of this thread, so you are the first person to wonder. I am perfectly happy to enjoy the chit chat and go no further. Besides which my current favorite gets all my discretionary money, so I'm sorta spoken for, in a monger sorta way.
If you want to see the posts by women, you have to look in the "Christian Louboutin's On Sale" threads.
The freaky thing is if you look at a site like:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/christian-louboutin-new-york
And change any reference about handbags and shoes to providers-
there isn't a lot of difference in the key features of what people are looking for.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/christian-louboutin-new-york
And change any reference about handbags and shoes to providers-
there isn't a lot of difference in the key features of what people are looking for.