I hope everyone from here is ok.....
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri..._1_dead_after_robbery_at_posh_poker_club.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri..._1_dead_after_robbery_at_posh_poker_club.html
Shooting at midtown poker club
- Thread starter aceofclubs26
- Start date
Every time I've been in a brothel/underground club bust, they don't take the patrons in, either. I guess that means that...........
Point being: the argument about "taking a cut" has been proven to be false, because clubs that only charged for table time (which was theoretically the baisi for them being "legal") have been consistently shut down.
Point being: the argument about "taking a cut" has been proven to be false, because clubs that only charged for table time (which was theoretically the baisi for them being "legal") have been consistently shut down.
The NY District Attorney has been quoted in the newspaper as saying that, during a raid, only the people running the games are at risk.
"Taking a cut" is not what they are busted for. "Promoting gambling" is what they are busted for. And that, essentially comes from profiting from a game in which you are not a player. So, charging for time is little different from taking a rake.
Oh, fuck it. Why don't I just post the statutes...
"Taking a cut" is not what they are busted for. "Promoting gambling" is what they are busted for. And that, essentially comes from profiting from a game in which you are not a player. So, charging for time is little different from taking a rake.
Oh, fuck it. Why don't I just post the statutes...
Part 1
Some highlights from the New York State Penal Law....
Penal Law Section 240.35(2) A person is guilty of LOITERING when he loiters or remains in a public place for the purpose of gambling with cards, dice or other gambling paraphernalia. (LOITERING is an arrestable offense, but is only a violation, not a crime, which is punishable by imprisonment of no more than fifteen days.)
Penal Law Section 240.00(1): "Public place" means a place to which the public or a substantial group of persons has access, and includes, but is not limited to, highways, transportation facilities, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds, and hallways, lobbies and other portions of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence.
Penal Law Section 225.00 Gambling offenses; definitions of terms.
The following definitions are applicable to this article:
1. "Contest of chance" means any contest, game, gaming scheme or gaming device in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants may also be a factor therein.
2. "Gambling." A person engages in gambling when he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.
3. "Player" means a person who engages in any form of gambling solely as a contestant or bettor, without receiving or becoming entitled to receive any profit therefrom other than personal gambling winnings, and without otherwise rendering any material assistance to the establishment, conduct or operation of the particular gambling activity. A person who gambles at a social game of chance on equal terms with the other participants therein does not otherwise render material assistance to the establishment, conduct or operation thereof by performing, without fee or remuneration, acts directed toward the arrangement or facilitation of the game, such as inviting persons to play, permitting the use of premises therefor and supplying cards or other equipment used therein. A person who engages in "bookmaking", as defined in this section is not a "player."
4. "Advance gambling activity." A person "advances gambling activity" when, acting other than as a player, he engages in conduct which materially aids any form of gambling activity. Such conduct includes but is not limited to conduct directed toward the creation or establishment of the particular game, contest, scheme, device or activity involved, toward the acquisition or maintenance of premises, paraphernalia, equipment or apparatus therefor, toward the solicitation or inducement of persons to participate therein, toward the actual conduct of the playing phases thereof, toward the arrangement of any of its financial or recording phases, or toward any other phase of its operation. One advances gambling activity when, having substantial proprietary or other authoritative control over premises being used with his knowledge for purposes of gambling activity, he permits such to occur or continue or makes no effort to prevent its occurrence or continuation.
5. "Profit from gambling activity." A person "profits from gambling activity" when, other than as a player, he accepts or receives money or other property pursuant to an agreement or understanding with any person whereby he participates or is to participate in the proceeds of gambling activity.
6. "Something of value" means any money or property, any token, object or article exchangeable for money or property, or any form of credit or promise directly or indirectly contemplating transfer of money or property or of any interest therein, or involving extension of a service, entertainment or a privilege of playing at a game or scheme without charge.
Some highlights from the New York State Penal Law....
Penal Law Section 240.35(2) A person is guilty of LOITERING when he loiters or remains in a public place for the purpose of gambling with cards, dice or other gambling paraphernalia. (LOITERING is an arrestable offense, but is only a violation, not a crime, which is punishable by imprisonment of no more than fifteen days.)
Penal Law Section 240.00(1): "Public place" means a place to which the public or a substantial group of persons has access, and includes, but is not limited to, highways, transportation facilities, schools, places of amusement, parks, playgrounds, and hallways, lobbies and other portions of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence.
Penal Law Section 225.00 Gambling offenses; definitions of terms.
The following definitions are applicable to this article:
1. "Contest of chance" means any contest, game, gaming scheme or gaming device in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants may also be a factor therein.
2. "Gambling." A person engages in gambling when he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.
3. "Player" means a person who engages in any form of gambling solely as a contestant or bettor, without receiving or becoming entitled to receive any profit therefrom other than personal gambling winnings, and without otherwise rendering any material assistance to the establishment, conduct or operation of the particular gambling activity. A person who gambles at a social game of chance on equal terms with the other participants therein does not otherwise render material assistance to the establishment, conduct or operation thereof by performing, without fee or remuneration, acts directed toward the arrangement or facilitation of the game, such as inviting persons to play, permitting the use of premises therefor and supplying cards or other equipment used therein. A person who engages in "bookmaking", as defined in this section is not a "player."
4. "Advance gambling activity." A person "advances gambling activity" when, acting other than as a player, he engages in conduct which materially aids any form of gambling activity. Such conduct includes but is not limited to conduct directed toward the creation or establishment of the particular game, contest, scheme, device or activity involved, toward the acquisition or maintenance of premises, paraphernalia, equipment or apparatus therefor, toward the solicitation or inducement of persons to participate therein, toward the actual conduct of the playing phases thereof, toward the arrangement of any of its financial or recording phases, or toward any other phase of its operation. One advances gambling activity when, having substantial proprietary or other authoritative control over premises being used with his knowledge for purposes of gambling activity, he permits such to occur or continue or makes no effort to prevent its occurrence or continuation.
5. "Profit from gambling activity." A person "profits from gambling activity" when, other than as a player, he accepts or receives money or other property pursuant to an agreement or understanding with any person whereby he participates or is to participate in the proceeds of gambling activity.
6. "Something of value" means any money or property, any token, object or article exchangeable for money or property, or any form of credit or promise directly or indirectly contemplating transfer of money or property or of any interest therein, or involving extension of a service, entertainment or a privilege of playing at a game or scheme without charge.
Part 2
7. "Gambling device" means any device, machine, paraphernalia or equipment which is used or usable in the playing phases of any gambling activity, whether such activity consists of gambling between persons or gambling by a person involving the playing of a machine. Notwithstanding the foregoing, lottery tickets, policy slips and other items used in the playing phases of lottery and policy schemes are not gambling devices.
7-a. A "coin operated gambling device" means a gambling device which operates as a result of the insertion of something of value. A device designed, constructed or readily adaptable or convertible for such use is a coin operated gambling device notwithstanding the fact that it may require adjustment, manipulation or repair in order to operate as such.
8. "Slot machine" means a gambling device which, as a result of the insertion of a coin or other object, operates, either completely automatically or with the aid of some physical act by the player, in such manner that, depending upon elements of chance, it may eject something of value. A device so constructed, or readily adaptable or convertible to such use, is no less a slot machine because it is not in working order or because some mechanical act of manipulation or repair is required to accomplish its adaptation, conversion or workability. Nor is it any less a slot machine because, apart from its use or adaptability as such, it may also sell or deliver something of value on a basis other than chance. A machine which sells items of merchandise which are of equivalent value, is not a slot machine merely because such items differ from each other in composition, size, shape or color. A machine which awards free or extended play is not a slot machine merely because such free or extended play may constitute something of value provided that the outcome depends in a material degree upon the skill of the player and not in a material degree upon an element of chance.
9. "Bookmaking" means advancing gambling activity by unlawfully accepting bets from members of the public as a business, rather than in a casual or personal fashion, upon the outcomes of future contingent events.
10. "Lottery" means an unlawful gambling scheme in which (a) the players pay or agree to pay something of value for chances, represented and differentiated by numbers or by combinations of numbers or by some other media, one or more of which chances are to be designated the winning ones; and (b) the winning chances are to be determined by a drawing or by some other method based upon the element of chance; and (c) the holders of the winning chances are to receive something of value provided, however, that in no event shall the provisions of this subdivision be construed to include a raffle as such term is defined in subdivision three-b of section one hundred eighty-six of the general municipal law.
11. "Policy" or "the numbers game" means a form of lottery in which the winning chances or plays are not determined upon the basis of a drawing or other act on the part of persons conducting or connected with the scheme, but upon the basis of the outcome or outcomes of a future contingent event or events otherwise unrelated to the particular scheme.
12. "Unlawful" means not specifically authorized by law.
Penal Law Section 225.05 Promoting gambling in the second degree.
A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the second degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity.
Promoting gambling in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Penal Law Section 225.10 Promoting gambling in the first degree.
A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the first degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity by:
1. Engaging in bookmaking to the extent that he receives or accepts in any one day more than five bets totaling more than five thousand dollars; or
2. Receiving, in connection with a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise, (a) money or written records from a person other than a player whose chances or plays are represented by such money or records, or (b) more than five hundred dollars in any one day of money played in such scheme or enterprise.
Promoting gambling in the first degree is a class E felony.
7. "Gambling device" means any device, machine, paraphernalia or equipment which is used or usable in the playing phases of any gambling activity, whether such activity consists of gambling between persons or gambling by a person involving the playing of a machine. Notwithstanding the foregoing, lottery tickets, policy slips and other items used in the playing phases of lottery and policy schemes are not gambling devices.
7-a. A "coin operated gambling device" means a gambling device which operates as a result of the insertion of something of value. A device designed, constructed or readily adaptable or convertible for such use is a coin operated gambling device notwithstanding the fact that it may require adjustment, manipulation or repair in order to operate as such.
8. "Slot machine" means a gambling device which, as a result of the insertion of a coin or other object, operates, either completely automatically or with the aid of some physical act by the player, in such manner that, depending upon elements of chance, it may eject something of value. A device so constructed, or readily adaptable or convertible to such use, is no less a slot machine because it is not in working order or because some mechanical act of manipulation or repair is required to accomplish its adaptation, conversion or workability. Nor is it any less a slot machine because, apart from its use or adaptability as such, it may also sell or deliver something of value on a basis other than chance. A machine which sells items of merchandise which are of equivalent value, is not a slot machine merely because such items differ from each other in composition, size, shape or color. A machine which awards free or extended play is not a slot machine merely because such free or extended play may constitute something of value provided that the outcome depends in a material degree upon the skill of the player and not in a material degree upon an element of chance.
9. "Bookmaking" means advancing gambling activity by unlawfully accepting bets from members of the public as a business, rather than in a casual or personal fashion, upon the outcomes of future contingent events.
10. "Lottery" means an unlawful gambling scheme in which (a) the players pay or agree to pay something of value for chances, represented and differentiated by numbers or by combinations of numbers or by some other media, one or more of which chances are to be designated the winning ones; and (b) the winning chances are to be determined by a drawing or by some other method based upon the element of chance; and (c) the holders of the winning chances are to receive something of value provided, however, that in no event shall the provisions of this subdivision be construed to include a raffle as such term is defined in subdivision three-b of section one hundred eighty-six of the general municipal law.
11. "Policy" or "the numbers game" means a form of lottery in which the winning chances or plays are not determined upon the basis of a drawing or other act on the part of persons conducting or connected with the scheme, but upon the basis of the outcome or outcomes of a future contingent event or events otherwise unrelated to the particular scheme.
12. "Unlawful" means not specifically authorized by law.
Penal Law Section 225.05 Promoting gambling in the second degree.
A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the second degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity.
Promoting gambling in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Penal Law Section 225.10 Promoting gambling in the first degree.
A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the first degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity by:
1. Engaging in bookmaking to the extent that he receives or accepts in any one day more than five bets totaling more than five thousand dollars; or
2. Receiving, in connection with a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise, (a) money or written records from a person other than a player whose chances or plays are represented by such money or records, or (b) more than five hundred dollars in any one day of money played in such scheme or enterprise.
Promoting gambling in the first degree is a class E felony.
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Part 3
Penal Law Section 225.15 Possession of gambling records in the second degree.
A person is guilty of possession of gambling records in the second degree when, with knowledge of the contents or nature thereof, he possesses any writing, paper, instrument or article:
1. Of a kind commonly used in the operation or promotion of a bookmaking scheme or enterprise; or
2. Of a kind commonly used in the operation, promotion or playing of a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise; except that in any prosecution under this subdivision, it is a defense that the writing, paper, instrument or article possessed by the defendant constituted, reflected or represented plays, bets or chances of the defendant himself in a number not exceeding ten.
3. Of any paper or paper product in sheet form chemically converted to nitrocellulose having explosive characteristics.
4. Of any water soluble paper or paper derivative in sheet form.
Possession of gambling records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Penal Law Section 225.20 Possession of gambling records in the first degree.
A person is guilty of possession of gambling records in the first degree when, with knowledge of the contents thereof, he possesses any writing, paper, instrument or article:
1. Of a kind commonly used in the operation or promotion of a bookmaking scheme or enterprise, and constituting, reflecting or representing more than five bets totaling more than five thousand dollars; or
2. Of a kind commonly used in the operation, promotion or playing of a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise, and constituting, reflecting or representing more than five hundred plays or chances therein.
Possession of gambling records in the first degree is a class E felony.
Penal Law Section 225.25 Possession of gambling records; defense.
In any prosecution for possession of gambling records, it is a defense that the writing, paper, instrument or article possessed by the defendant was neither used nor intended to be used in the operation or promotion of a bookmaking scheme or enterprise, or in the operation, promotion or playing of a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise.
Penal Law Section 225.30 Possession of a gambling device.
A person is guilty of possession of a gambling device when, with knowledge of the character thereof, he manufactures, sells, transports, places or possesses, or conducts or negotiates any transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership, custody or use of:
1. A slot machine; or
2. Any other gambling device, believing that the same is to be used in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
3. A coin operated gambling device with intent to use such device in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
Possession of a gambling device is a class A misdemeanor.
Penal Law Section 225.32 Possession of a gambling device; defenses.
1. In any prosecution for possession of a gambling device specified in subdivision one of section 225.30 of this chapter, it is an affirmative defense that: (a) the slot machine possessed by the defendant was neither used nor intended to be used in the operation or promotion of unlawful gambling activity or enterprise and that such slot machine is an antique; for purposes of this section proof that a slot machine was manufactured prior to nineteen hundred forty-one shall be conclusive proof that such a machine is an antique; (b) the slot machine possessed by the defendant was manufactured or assembled by the defendant for the sole purpose of transporting such slot machine in a sealed container to a jurisdiction outside this state for purposes which are lawful in such outside jurisdiction; (c) the slot machine possessed by the defendant was neither used nor intended to be used in the operation or promotion of unlawful gambling activity or enterprise, is more than thirty years old, and such possession takes place in the defendantÆs home; or (d) the slot machine was transported into this state in a sealed container for the purpose of product development, research, or additional manufacture or assembly, and such slot machine will be or has been transported in a sealed container to a jurisdiction outside of this state for purposes which are lawful in such outside jurisdiction.
2. Where a defendant raises an affirmative defense provided by subdivision one hereof, any slot machine seized from the defendant shall not be destroyed, or otherwise altered until a final court determination is rendered. In a final court determination rendered in favor of said defendant, such slot machine shall be returned, forthwith, to said defendant, notwithstanding any provisions of law to the contrary.
Penal Law Section 225.35 Gambling offenses; presumptions.
1. Proof of possession of any gambling device or of any gambling record specified in sections 225.15 and 225.20, is presumptive evidence of possession thereof with knowledge of its character or contents.
2. In any prosecution under this article in which it is necessary to prove the occurrence of a sporting event, a published report of its occurrence in any daily newspaper, magazine or other periodically printed publication of general circulation shall be admissible in evidence and shall constitute presumptive proof of the occurrence of such event.
3. Possession of three or more coin operated gambling devices or possession of a coin operated gambling device in a public place shall be presumptive evidence of intent to use in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
Penal Law Section 225.40 Lottery offenses; no defense.
Any offense defined in this article which consists of the commission of acts relating to a lottery is no less criminal because the lottery itself is drawn or conducted without the state and is not violative of the laws of the jurisdiction in which it was so drawn or conducted.
Penal Law Section 225.15 Possession of gambling records in the second degree.
A person is guilty of possession of gambling records in the second degree when, with knowledge of the contents or nature thereof, he possesses any writing, paper, instrument or article:
1. Of a kind commonly used in the operation or promotion of a bookmaking scheme or enterprise; or
2. Of a kind commonly used in the operation, promotion or playing of a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise; except that in any prosecution under this subdivision, it is a defense that the writing, paper, instrument or article possessed by the defendant constituted, reflected or represented plays, bets or chances of the defendant himself in a number not exceeding ten.
3. Of any paper or paper product in sheet form chemically converted to nitrocellulose having explosive characteristics.
4. Of any water soluble paper or paper derivative in sheet form.
Possession of gambling records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Penal Law Section 225.20 Possession of gambling records in the first degree.
A person is guilty of possession of gambling records in the first degree when, with knowledge of the contents thereof, he possesses any writing, paper, instrument or article:
1. Of a kind commonly used in the operation or promotion of a bookmaking scheme or enterprise, and constituting, reflecting or representing more than five bets totaling more than five thousand dollars; or
2. Of a kind commonly used in the operation, promotion or playing of a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise, and constituting, reflecting or representing more than five hundred plays or chances therein.
Possession of gambling records in the first degree is a class E felony.
Penal Law Section 225.25 Possession of gambling records; defense.
In any prosecution for possession of gambling records, it is a defense that the writing, paper, instrument or article possessed by the defendant was neither used nor intended to be used in the operation or promotion of a bookmaking scheme or enterprise, or in the operation, promotion or playing of a lottery or policy scheme or enterprise.
Penal Law Section 225.30 Possession of a gambling device.
A person is guilty of possession of a gambling device when, with knowledge of the character thereof, he manufactures, sells, transports, places or possesses, or conducts or negotiates any transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership, custody or use of:
1. A slot machine; or
2. Any other gambling device, believing that the same is to be used in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
3. A coin operated gambling device with intent to use such device in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
Possession of a gambling device is a class A misdemeanor.
Penal Law Section 225.32 Possession of a gambling device; defenses.
1. In any prosecution for possession of a gambling device specified in subdivision one of section 225.30 of this chapter, it is an affirmative defense that: (a) the slot machine possessed by the defendant was neither used nor intended to be used in the operation or promotion of unlawful gambling activity or enterprise and that such slot machine is an antique; for purposes of this section proof that a slot machine was manufactured prior to nineteen hundred forty-one shall be conclusive proof that such a machine is an antique; (b) the slot machine possessed by the defendant was manufactured or assembled by the defendant for the sole purpose of transporting such slot machine in a sealed container to a jurisdiction outside this state for purposes which are lawful in such outside jurisdiction; (c) the slot machine possessed by the defendant was neither used nor intended to be used in the operation or promotion of unlawful gambling activity or enterprise, is more than thirty years old, and such possession takes place in the defendantÆs home; or (d) the slot machine was transported into this state in a sealed container for the purpose of product development, research, or additional manufacture or assembly, and such slot machine will be or has been transported in a sealed container to a jurisdiction outside of this state for purposes which are lawful in such outside jurisdiction.
2. Where a defendant raises an affirmative defense provided by subdivision one hereof, any slot machine seized from the defendant shall not be destroyed, or otherwise altered until a final court determination is rendered. In a final court determination rendered in favor of said defendant, such slot machine shall be returned, forthwith, to said defendant, notwithstanding any provisions of law to the contrary.
Penal Law Section 225.35 Gambling offenses; presumptions.
1. Proof of possession of any gambling device or of any gambling record specified in sections 225.15 and 225.20, is presumptive evidence of possession thereof with knowledge of its character or contents.
2. In any prosecution under this article in which it is necessary to prove the occurrence of a sporting event, a published report of its occurrence in any daily newspaper, magazine or other periodically printed publication of general circulation shall be admissible in evidence and shall constitute presumptive proof of the occurrence of such event.
3. Possession of three or more coin operated gambling devices or possession of a coin operated gambling device in a public place shall be presumptive evidence of intent to use in the advancement of unlawful gambling activity.
Penal Law Section 225.40 Lottery offenses; no defense.
Any offense defined in this article which consists of the commission of acts relating to a lottery is no less criminal because the lottery itself is drawn or conducted without the state and is not violative of the laws of the jurisdiction in which it was so drawn or conducted.
Explain to me how this DOESN'T describe a winning patron:
Penal Law Section 225.05 Promoting gambling in the second degree.
A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the second degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity.
Promoting gambling in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
Penal Law Section 225.05 Promoting gambling in the second degree.
A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the second degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity.
Promoting gambling in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
and they exclude from that exclusion "such as inviting persons to play". And since you only get in by referal from another player, it means just about everyone in these places (haven't you invited anyone to any of these places? You're no longer a player).
but what everyone forgets is that each and every one of these places is an unlicensed socail club, and that in and of itself is an offense.
Look, feel free to go to these places: I sure do. but everyone has been talking bullshit for years about the various ways these places can't be busted, etc. I remember when a friend opened acard club and he "had advice from an attorney" that since they were only collecting for table time they were legal (and just about every place claimed this same thing). Of course, they got busted.
If you want to claim legality, you've got a whole bunch of Gaming Industry "attorneys" with little or no credentials on your side of the argument, and Elliot Spitzer on the other.
but what everyone forgets is that each and every one of these places is an unlicensed socail club, and that in and of itself is an offense.
Look, feel free to go to these places: I sure do. but everyone has been talking bullshit for years about the various ways these places can't be busted, etc. I remember when a friend opened acard club and he "had advice from an attorney" that since they were only collecting for table time they were legal (and just about every place claimed this same thing). Of course, they got busted.
If you want to claim legality, you've got a whole bunch of Gaming Industry "attorneys" with little or no credentials on your side of the argument, and Elliot Spitzer on the other.
LOL I'd like to see the DA who went before the judge saying "since he was at the poker club, he probably invited someone else there at some point." I am a player. That's it.
I don't disagree that running the club is an offense. No matter what they call the rake, or the time charge. My point was that it is an offense for the folks running the place, and not for the players.
Legally, the only thing they could go after the players for is Loitering, which is a violation but not a crime. And even then, loitering can only take place in a public place, and I think, if it ever went that far, I could make a pretty convincing argument that a place with a locked door that you need to be let into is not a public place.
I don't disagree that running the club is an offense. No matter what they call the rake, or the time charge. My point was that it is an offense for the folks running the place, and not for the players.
Legally, the only thing they could go after the players for is Loitering, which is a violation but not a crime. And even then, loitering can only take place in a public place, and I think, if it ever went that far, I could make a pretty convincing argument that a place with a locked door that you need to be let into is not a public place.
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I forgot to mention that I am not a lawyer. 
Seriously. When I was first at a club that got raided, I ******ed a friend who is an Asst. DA to ask him if I was in any danger. He sent me the information that I posted.
I have been at clubs during 5 or 6 police raids over the years that I have been playing, and my personal experience bears out what I have said.
I feel comfortable that I am not in any legal danger playing at these clubs. Take that with a grain of salt. If anyone does not feel comfortable, then they should not go.
Seriously. When I was first at a club that got raided, I ******ed a friend who is an Asst. DA to ask him if I was in any danger. He sent me the information that I posted.
I have been at clubs during 5 or 6 police raids over the years that I have been playing, and my personal experience bears out what I have said.
I feel comfortable that I am not in any legal danger playing at these clubs. Take that with a grain of salt. If anyone does not feel comfortable, then they should not go.