Sex with Civilian women: Why I pay for sex.

#1
There has been some time that I've been sleeping with sex workers. I pay for the higher end girls who are priced $120 to $200.00 and up for the night/day.

Let me stress that I am not the stereo typical john. I'm a very attractive young man, gainfully employed fit if not athletic / muscular, college educated and a great people person.
I've had girlfriends before, I'm a major flirt and can strike up a conversation with almost any one. I might have a major sexual addiction and miraculously I am healthy and STD free.
I don't know where to start with this post. I guess I'm writing it here on CL because I want to know if there are other men like me and if they feel the same way.

I have a lot of female friends, some of them do come on to me in some manner or another ( example light touching of my arms, butt or casually "pressing themselves against me", some of you guys know what I mean). And in some cases I bite and end up sleeping with them, but in many cases I don't because of the complex nature of our friendship and to be frank, the lady friends life style might become an issue if I were to be involved with them in some manner or another. I'm not a commitment phobe, in fact I'm quite the opposite, I enjoy being affectionate and passionate person.
My experience with civilian women have been at best... tumultuous.

I tend to encounter women who either lead dramatic life styles, who are extreme opportunist, some have been self destructive and other just plain and simply bad people. Again to the female readers out there, I'm not saying this of all women, just the ones I've encountered, plus lately a lot of my female friends want to cheat on their boyfriends with me, simply because they either want to get away from them, but need them in some fashion (usually money) or just honestly don't care for them. A lot of these ladies aren't even the Jerry Springer type, they're young, attractive, educated women. Some are empty and others are just plain well... deutchey!

Lastly a lot of these ladies are just simpley complicated people, they find fault in something in someone. Be it the guy is broke or under employed or he works way too much and has no time for them.

This is why I pay for sex.
I don't want to hook up with any drama queens, I don't want to be you're other man, and granted I am essentially paying for companionship, it's for a short period, agreed upon time and place, and if we hit it off well and know what we want in each other it usually turns out to be a win win situation. Also I am not a complicated man, I'm not in to tassles or whips and chains or freaky stuff at all, the most weirdest thing I would say I've done with a prostitute is anal sex. Other wise I would sleep with them ideally how I would of like to sleep with a civilian woman minus the baggage and head aches. Some of these ladies (well most of them I've spoken to) can be real down to earth and I've had some great conversations with them. Don't get me wrong I can do that with civilian woman too, except a major problem has grown from my sexual exploits with sex workers....

They're really damn good at having sex, and are extremely reciprocal.
One major thing I love about civilian women is you can be emotional with them ( suffice they're not nut jobs). You can honestly make love with one and not treat them as a business proposal. And odds are they have the same feelings for you. With a sex worker granted they can LIKE you for being you. They will never love you, but at the same time they are also the most honest with you( any dude who falls for professional is delusional, and doesn't understand that, much like entertainers are in the business of providing a fantasy). Plus let's be frank here you're more likely to have unprotected sex with with a CGF (civilian girl friend) then you are with a SW. In theory the higher price the woman, the more protected you are from stds ( how ever who are we kidding here?).

My gripe with civilian women in the sexual department is very lacking, CW's can be extremely attractive, well pampered and clean and can be the most spectacular girl in the world personality wise. Yet when it comes to the sack... laying there and taking it is not considered sex. That's just someone having intercourse with some else who isn't really involved, lazy or just plain and simply doesn't know how to have sex other then being on her back.Or worst she can be a sexual nazi and not do certain things that turn me on ( like for example oral sex), or know how to move her body properly (yes even women need to learn how to move their hips and gyrate as well). And I'm sorry if this makes me sound like a pig, but if I can take directions on what turns you on and I am willing to play ball for it, why can't you?

The issue of time:
I am a very busy guy, I don't get out of work at a certain times I'm supposed to, then my free time is spent doing freelance work on the side or just making sure my bills and things I need at home are up to snuff. I would love to find a CW who is understanding enough about this situation and not use it against me, or use it as a reason to cheat on me either. I'm not a pot head gamer, and or a layabout either. I'm pretty stable guy. I would love to find someone like that, I don't see that in my near future. a SW won't give me grief for being a productive male (especially in these tough times). I can set up an appointment and go on my marry ways to relieve my daily stresses in life. Plus I've known too many hard working responsible guys who go home to ladies who simply don't appreciate them at all. At times I don't blame them for being cheaters either (there are exceptions).

Money:
Look I would be the first guy to say that I enjoy taking my friends to bars, movies and dinner. The good thing about my friends is I know they would appreciate the gesture and would do the same for me if and when I am invited to a social function with them. In addition we have each others backs when one of us is low on the funds.

When it comes to dating that's a whole different ball game.
Excuse me for saying this, but honestly on average it's a lot more expensive having a CW girl friend then it is sleeping with a SW. You are spending maybe a couple of hundred bucks once a month (unless you're a high roller freak). With a CW it's a lot more expensive if you include dinner, movies and even going to clubs and events she likes and you spend most of the money. These things aren't cheap and in nyc they're a whole lot more expensive. Unless you find a CW who goes dutch with you or really enjoys it when you cook for them ( I know a girl who told me she wouldn't bother dating a guy if he cooked, because she wanted to be wined and dined) then forget it. Dating becomes a major income investment. You are being bleed of your money for a prolonged period of time, and in many cases all in vain. There are some guys that actually do take SW to dinner. Frankly I don't see the point of me doing that for someone I have only sexual intentions for.

Intimacy:
This is tricky, you see with SW you have to be very careful with how you have sex with them. You have to wear a condom, aside from health reasons you don't want to impregnate her either.
Plus kissing becomes an issue because both parties don't know each others sexual history. There are ways around having an intense sexual experience ( and in some cases even passionate ones) but you really can't be that close with a SW. That's an edge a CW has in spades over an SW. Plus with an SW the amount of time you spend with them cost you money ( unless they really like you then, they'll discount the over time and probably put you under "personal time"). My only issue with intimacy with CW is that it can be used to manipulate you ( and vice versa to the decent ladies out there that end up with dogs)

I don't know if there are guys who think and feel this way, I just wanted to explain why I do this. Hopefully a CW can at least see how I interpret things if she can't understand my feelings, but can understand my rational.

I am very aware that I have major women issues and probably have major intimacy issues as well. In short I do this because they are convenient, I know where I stand, there are no illusions to what I am doing, no games and doggy tricks to seek approval. My world like it or not is hallow, it's hallow because I fear being hurt used or even being bored of the CW woman. At the same time I dream of being in a healthy relationship with a CW, but the realty in my world begs to differ. I hope this is illuminating, and at least I have something to look back at in regards to my sexual history.
 
#4
Damn! Something I wanted to write. I'm in the same boat. Although I didn't read the entire post (about 75% of it), I'll respond. Had a long day =)
 
#5
Why I pay for sex

For me it is a lot simpler than the original post. It boils down to the fact that, sexually, a woman's body turnaround time is about a year, and then you need to move on. (I'm not going to mull over the natural reasons for this.) That is to say, it either wears out physically, or it wears out mentally.

This doesn't mean you can't have long relationships, or even life-long marriages, but it does mean that eventually you will cheat (or experience a diminished libido, which may not be a bad thing)

So as most of you I have a girlfriend and its been a year or so. There was another girlfriend a year back, and another two years before that, and so on. But it happens again and again: eventually I just don't want to have sex with them anymore. It's like eventually you're just going through the motions. Sure, you can spice it up with various new things and get a couple extra miles out of it, but eventually you need a new set of holes, a new body, a new face, a new personality. At least I do. My much older brothers have the same issue, and the more I look at relationships (of which I have honest knowledge) the more the theme becomes recurring.

That's it, really. The other points are also important, but for me they are supporting points. I'll just reiterate the big ones: sw are cheaper (I go for high end 150-300, and yes I did the math, and yes it is cheaper for me...), they aren't going to bitch and moan (or at least you don't have to put up with it) they will try to keep you as a customer (and therefore it's not just starfish sex). Although yes, you can get more intimate with a cgf, and go bareback (I'm not that adventurous with sw), but for all the minuses you might as well do both, no pun intended. Then there's the trusty dolphin flogger, and they have some cool products out there that are much better than ye olde apple pie method.

Me, personally, I'm looking for a hybrid. Not a pro sw, but someone who understands my point of view and accepts it. How insufferably chauvinistic of me is that? :D (And unrealistic, to be sure) Until that time, I just can't come to any conclusion other than that a woman doesn't last enough. (There's also the point about urban women being more spoiled rotten, I don't have that much experience with suburban/rural women...)
 
#6
I will let you in on a little secret.................. Sex isnt everything. There I said it on a whore board. Now I am ducking.

There are things that trascend sex and that is what you are missing. Everything you said is true. There will always be the law of diminishing returns on sex. And thus why many of us are here today.

In you truly are in love, not movie love, not infauation, but deep meaningful love, the above becomes irrelevant. You will want to please each other and the emotional connection will be far greater than the physical one.

It is easy to get bored with sex. There are only so many variations. Stop looking for someone you physcially connect with. If a woman truly loves you, she will intuitively learn what you want and vica versa.

Find someone you dig so much, that you just want to spend time with. The rest will flow from there. I dated 50 women in a very short period of time, until I found one that was special. NYC is one of the worst places to find women. The women there are seeking the wrong things in guys and are more trophy hunting.

Just one paperpusher's opinion.
 
#7
One more thing you already know. There is an inverse relationship with looks and personality. There are great looking special people, but not many of them and they usually are taken. Most the great looking woman have a sense of entiltlement as you have already seen.

I was once going out with this very beautiful looking balerina. During sex, she said that she was best looking person in Manhattan and I should have an orgasm just looking at her. Not a special person.

These women spend so much time on their appearance, that it is usually superficial stuff that is important to them. And guys compliment them so many times, they only get worse. How I got around this, was to find a diamond in the rough. Someone who was young and goodlooking but did not know it. She just needed to dress right, get the right stylist and she was stunning (and I got the pictures to prove it, lol). The other direction I went, was I started to date chinese woman, who most of them do not play the games that you are experiencing.
 
#8
Because I can't just walk into a bar, proposition a 24 year old, and take her upstairs ... unless I pay her. For the women willing to put out, it's always linked to some sort of catch, as in relationship. Men use relationships to get sex, women use sex to get relationships. No justice in this world, and certainly no symmetry.
 
#9
...Most the great looking woman have a sense of entiltlement as you have already seen...
Topic for another thread but I will say this about your statement.
- Many beautiful women in fact don't see themselves as beautiful. They are prone to self-esteem issues and only find fault in their looks.
- Many beautiful women are not in a relationship due to the fact that guys are (1) intimidated by their looks or (2) guys assume they're already taken (because how could such a piece of ass be available)
- Any woman who presents herself as having a sense of entitlement is labeled a "BITCH". Her physical beauty begins to diminish as you get to know her. Her inner ugliness floats to the service.

Back on topic. Sex with civilian women comes with a 40 mule team of baggage especially if you're married. Much safer to indulge in P4P for non-committal sex.

However, with that said, I find the P4P world completely unfulfilling, contrived, mechanical and boring. I have had some over-the-top sex with ladies in the business but 10 minutes later it means nothing, as it should. But when I'm out there and make a true electric connection with a civilian lady.....my fucking blood boils.
 
#10
Topic for another thread but I will say this about your statement.
- Many beautiful women in fact don't see themselves as beautiful. They are prone to self-esteem issues and only find fault in their looks.
- Many beautiful women are not in a relationship due to the fact that guys are (1) intimidated by their looks or (2) guys assume they're already taken (because how could such a piece of ass be available)
- Any woman who presents herself as having a sense of entitlement is labeled a "BITCH". Her physical beauty begins to diminish as you get to know her. Her inner ugliness floats to the service.

Back on topic. Sex with civilian women comes with a 40 mule team of baggage especially if you're married. Much safer to indulge in P4P for non-committal sex.

However, with that said, I find the P4P world completely unfulfilling, contrived, mechanical and boring. I have had some over-the-top sex with ladies in the business but 10 minutes later it means nothing, as it should. But when I'm out there and make a true electric connection with a civilian lady.....my fucking blood boils.
I havent seen you on UG in awhile (maybe I just missed your posts), but knew you would surface on this one. LOL

I think the woman you are talking about are a distint minority, like less than 20%. Other than that, I think we agree pretty much on everything.

There are guys that are intimidated by good looking woman no doubt, but there are plenty of guys that are not, so a goodlooking lady with a healthy personality will be taken out of the single market fast. Very few left by age thirty and the ones that are left are ones that have just left a long term relationship that did not work out.

The ones with self-esteem issues, will soon be blaming the guy for all her ills. Been there, done that. If the girl has self-esteem issues it will morph in to the relationship.
 
#11
There are guys that are intimidated by good looking woman no doubt, but there are plenty of guys that are not, so a goodlooking lady with a healthy personality will be taken out of the single market fast. Very few left by age thirty and the ones that are left are ones that have just left a long term relationship that did not work out.
I used to think in terms like this but now I find that what a 'good looking woman' is depends so much on individual taste that the distinction isnt very important. Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder, you know? I find it's better to discover asap what kind of personality disorder your target has and then determine if it's something you can live with for whatever period of time you're anticipating to spend with her. So it's not "Is she messed up?" it's "How messed up is she?" And, yes, men are no better.
 
#15
However, with that said, I find the P4P world completely unfulfilling, contrived, mechanical and boring. I have had some over-the-top sex with ladies in the business but 10 minutes later it means nothing, as it should. But when I'm out there and make a true electric connection with a civilian lady.....my fucking blood boils.
But does your blood keep boiling, or in the end, long after the affair is over, does it still hold as much "meaning" as when it first occurred? Because, when you say commercial sex "means nothing" (and I wholeheartedly agree with you, except that I expect it to mean nothing; if it meant something, it would be a relationship), I wonder exactly what you're looking for.
 
#16
But does your blood keep boiling, or in the end, long after the affair is over, does it still hold as much "meaning" as when it first occurred? Because, when you say commercial sex "means nothing" (and I wholeheartedly agree with you, except that I expect it to mean nothing; if it meant something, it would be a relationship), I wonder exactly what you're looking for.
Personally a lot of non-p4p means nothing for me as well. Excepting that the woman thinks I owe her something because she put out, guilting me if I don't act the way she wants. True connection is hard to find, and if I know that a woman is dating me because she is lonely, or because she likes my car or my apartment, then I feel the same as when I am with a prostitute. In fact a good prostitute treats me like a client just the same way my dental hygienist does. And I respect her for the professionalism and effort it takes for her to do her job. Oddly perhaps, because of this, the transaction can be both friendly and pleasant.

Come to think of it, I miss that Russian incall woman I saw a few months ago. That was some fun and friendly sex.
 
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#17
with non p4p, when you're tired of the chick, simply fart when shes blowing you. She'll get the hint

Or tell her you respect her so much you want to piss in her throat.

Getting out of non p4p isnt that hard
 
#18
But does your blood keep boiling, or in the end, long after the affair is over, does it still hold as much "meaning" as when it first occurred? Because, when you say commercial sex "means nothing" (and I wholeheartedly agree with you, except that I expect it to mean nothing; if it meant something, it would be a relationship), I wonder exactly what you're looking for.
Just voicing my personal feelings of P4P vs. NP4P. I've always been a big fan of the "chase" which is a void factor in the P4P world. However, I no longer have extra circular affairs but still practice the art of seduction, tease and chase. Guess you can call me a cunt-tease.
 
#19
I'm not arguing for or against NP4P. I was simply reacting to the suggestion that sex in a NP4P arrangement is more "meaningful" than in a strictly P4P arrangement. To your point, the thrill of the chase is a big motivator for many who play this game. I can't remember who made this observation -- Jame Joyce? -- that the anticipation of a sexual encounter is sometimes more exciting than the encounter itself.
 
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