Removal of washers and dryers

#1
My condo board sent a memo around stating that individual units are no longer able to have their own individual washers and dryers inside their units and must remove them or face fines.
My question is after 20 some years can they do this ? Is there some type of grandfather clause to allow current units to keep them ? Is my only options to comply or move ? How can I keep my own washer and dryer ?
Thanks for any info.
 
#3
This something I never understood about this City. Every landlord has made me sign that I would never put a washer or dryer in my apartment. What is the deal with it? Are there risks of fire? Electrocutions? Anything?
 
#5
This something I never understood about this City. Every landlord has made me sign that I would never put a washer or dryer in my apartment. What is the deal with it? Are there risks of fire? Electrocutions? Anything?
I think it is for a few reasons. First as a moneymaker they want you to use the ones in every other basement that are coin operated and the association makes 1/2.
I also think that some other owners complain the second floor units make too much noise and in one instance they had one leak and ruin first floor sheetrock.
I think that since I am first floor I don't have to worry about the noise factor or leaking and also my washer connects to the sink and is portable so I only connect it when I use it.
My problem is not only the inconvenience on not having my own in my unit but now I must figure out where to store it ? I will have to pay to rent a storage unit.
I don't think this is fair since I have had it for about 20 years and feel I should be "grandfathered" in. Also it cuts down on the resale value when I want to sell.
 
#6
This something I never understood about this City. Every landlord has made me sign that I would never put a washer or dryer in my apartment. What is the deal with it? Are there risks of fire? Electrocutions? Anything?
Danger of overflow and flooding from the washing machine and danger of fire from the dryer.
Danger of electrical shock ,smoke damage or fie from any electrical appliance.
Homeowner and apartment insurance becoming increasing more restrictive,
Some companies will not write coverage, or deny it for certain breeds of dogs, and exotic animals
 
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#7
This something I never understood about this City. Every landlord has made me sign that I would never put a washer or dryer in my apartment. What is the deal with it? Are there risks of fire? Electrocutions? Anything?
Besides what BW said about the land lord making money,not all complexes have sewers. The older apartments and condo's here might have a septic system or a leeching field, and it might be too much for it to handle all the washers.

They would rather stick them all in one room and run it on a separate septic system, and in the end there only pumping out one system instead of the whole complex.
 
#9
Every landlord has made me sign that I would never put a washer or dryer in my apartment. What is the deal with it?
Without special provisions in the plumbing called "suds zones" the suds can back up into the lower floor bathrooms, effectively having suds come out of peoples toilets. This is probably what is happening. It is not a noise thing. It could be an electrical overload issue but only if you are putting in an electrical dryer and then it would only be a local apartment problem and not a building wide problem. Likely they are concerned about suds.

Whether or not they could make you remove it retroactively is a legal question. If they can prove that the installation of the W/Ds is causing irreparable harm, perhaps they have a case. Again, this is a legal question.

Regarding whether or not they do this in any other cities, if you have prewar high rise buildings in other cities, you would have the same issues. All new high rise buildings have suds protection built in to the way they install the plumbing. NYC is unique in many ways.

I normally charge a lot of money for these answers so I consider this my contribution to the board.
 
#10
Besides what BW said about the land lord making money,not all complexes have sewers. The older apartments and condo's here might have a septic system or a leeching field, and it might be too much for it to handle all the washers.

They would rather stick them all in one room and run it on a separate septic system, and in the end there only pumping out one system instead of the whole complex.
No septic systems or leeching fields in NYC. All city sewers. (some exceptions but beyond the scope of mongers understanding)
 
#13
Whether or not they could make you remove it retroactively is a legal question. If they can prove that the installation of the W/Ds is causing irreparable harm, perhaps they have a case. Again, this is a legal question.
This is basically my question. I have lived here almost 20 years and now all of a sudden they want them removed. I have portable small 2 foot washer and 2 foot dryer and neither are "permanently" installed. The washer rolls over to the sink and hooks to the faucet. I only connect them when I use them then roll them back in the corner.
 

wolf5958

lil Fuzzybear
#15
This is basically my question. I have lived here almost 20 years and now all of a sudden they want them removed. I have portable small 2 foot washer and 2 foot dryer and neither are "permanently" installed. The washer rolls over to the sink and hooks to the faucet. I only connect them when I use them then roll them back in the corner.
BW it doesn't matter why after all this time, what does matter is can they. I am not a legal eagle but every condo has rules and something like a by-law. For them to be able to make changes to the rules there must be a rule saying so. If I were you I would get a copy of these rules and or agreement and read through it to see if you have a leg to stand on. Than if you truely want to buck the system you may want to hire a lawyer to fight the condo assoc. I could be wrong but I always thought that something like this required a vote by the owners and after all you do own your condo....
 
#16
My condo board sent a memo around stating that individual units are no longer able to have their own individual washers and dryers inside their units and must remove them or face fines.....
I'm not an attorney but I believe that there must be a by-law amendment to affect this change. As a shareholder you should have been given notice about this or any other pending by-law amendment. You should look into this further (obviously) before you comply. But I think more than a simple memo from the managing agent would be required. You will have to get a look at the original by-laws.

Flexible as they can be, however, individual bylaws already written can't just be changed on a whim. For example, in a recent Washington Post column, attorney Benny L. Kass, explains that if renting is already permitted in a building's bylaws, the board cannot pass a rule that prohibits owners from leasing out their units.
http://www.cooperator.com/articles/1158/1/Changing-the-Rules/Page1.html
 
#17
differance bet condo and coop

I live inManhattan. "Usually" and this is used broadly. Condo rules permit washer/dryers, coop rules do not allow. Don't know reasoning behind it but condo is your 4 walls and you can do anyhthing you would like (be reasonable here).

Give a couple of bucks to the super and don't allow access.
 
#18
I live inManhattan. "Usually" and this is used broadly. Condo rules permit washer/dryers, coop rules do not allow. Don't know reasoning behind it but condo is your 4 walls and you can do anyhthing you would like (be reasonable here).

Give a couple of bucks to the super and don't allow access.
Disagree strongly about the condo and coop differentiation but whatever. Could be you have this understanding because most condos are newer and don't have this problem with updated plumbing.

I strongly agree to give the super a few bucks and not allow access.
 

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#20
a) Rufftoy is correct that it almost entirely depends on the ByLaws of the Condominium. (unless there is some local ordinance which contradicts it: for example, in NYC if you have a dog and "openly and notoriously" let everyone know (like, for example, building doormen see you taking it out three times a day for a walk) after a certain time period, the dog get's "grandfthered" in no matter what the loease says.

b) heydave is correct about suds backing up, but that isn't the real issue. there are several issues involved (not in order of importance):
i) The water bill. Water bills have increased greatly in recent years. people with washing mashines inside their units tend to use a lot more water. Evenyone ends up paying it because almost no building has separate metering for water.
ii) Similarly, buildings which don't have separate gas or electric meters per apartment (I've been in some buildings which include electricity in the monthly charge and seen people go away for a week and leave their AC on).
iii) The single biggest insurance dollar claim in the US is due to leaks from burst hoses from washing machines. Did you know that after each time you use your washing machine you're actually supposed to turn the water valve off that feeds it? Do you know anyone who does this? So what you have is hoses (i.e. not copper or other "plumbing") which are under pressure 24/7/365. Eventually over time these hoses will rupture and start spilling about 5 gallons a minute (or more) of water onto the floor of the unit (and probably when your not home). If it take 1/2 for the news to get to the super, get access to the unit, etc. you can easily have over 100 gallons of water leaked. This can destroy the walls in units 10 floors below (whenever I see some prewar apartment building on West End Avenue where they have lots of people who have insotalled Washer/dryer units in the maids bathrooms, you also see the plaster is shot in the maids rooms because of the leaks ever few years. The funny thing is there is a device which an solve this problem, but no one seems to know about it (one of the reasons I always say Managing Agents are incompetant because I've been using this device for 10 years and I've never come across a single managing Agent who knew about it). No, it's NOT a device which sits on the floor and reads moisture and then turns the washer off (which sort of works, but waits till there's a problem). What happens is that everything: hot water, cold water, electricity vent are all fed into a box which you fit into the wall and you plug all the washer's input into it. It reads the electricity usage when you turn on the machine and then (and only then) does it open the valves for the water. So, if the machine isn't being used, no water. This not only stops the situtation where you aren't home and a leak starts, but in and of itself it lengthens the life of the hoses since they don't sit there 24/7/365 under full pressure (which is what eventually causes the bubbles and bursts in the hoses). They only cost about $200 (http://www.plumbingsupply.com/washingmachineshutoffvalve.html) and if you put them in when you're origianlly installing the plumbing for the washing machine, the added cost for installing this is minimal.


BTW part of the problem is that Coop/Condo attorneys are mostly telling their clients (Coop/Condo Boards) that they can do whatever the fuck they want and rely on the "Business Judgement Rule" to say that their decisions can not be challenged in court. If you want to see some really fucked up stuff, look up "Pullman" (http://www.cooperator.com/articles/871/1/Push-and-Pullman/Page1.html)
 
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