Net Neutrality

[WizardOfAhhs]

If you were using Amazon as a hypothetical and not as an example then in actuality Amazon is in support of net neutrality as is Google, Apple and Facebook among others who may never have had a chance to blossom and grow from seed without net neutrality. The Internet has become for the most part our sole source of information. It is not only a tool but it has also become a necessity of life to a large part of the population. It is a place where anyone can freely express their views, roll out a new idea and compete on a level playing field. It is a place where any business large or small can creatively vie for the attention of the consumer. Innovation is not stifled. Inventions can be brought to fruition. Dreams can be realized. The consumer can now freely choose what products, services and content to consume. Net neutrality is consumer protection in a nutshell. Without it the only destinations and exits on that highway that we now freely travel wherever we wish to go will be those which someone else determines will be more beneficial to us then the ones that we were trying to get to. Do you really want people who control the wealth to control that?

(wiping tears from my eyes) It's times like this that make me proud to be a 'Merican.

Anything else is just tyranny by the majority.

"Tyranny by the majority" is the very definition of democracy.

Correct, they are not. I'm not sure that libel or slander is criminal —I always thought in US they were civil law. If I'm right (maybe our UG lawyer types can clarify this) you can write or speak (slander) all you want. You just may end up paying a lot of $ damages to the entity you libel or slander.

That's correct. Libel and slander, which are just two forms of the same thing, one written and one verbal (although the courts tend to be a little harsher on libel, since the written word outlasts and has a further reach than the spoken word) are not crimes.

 

[Slinky Bender]

Genius,
There are plenty of places where consumers cannot vote with their feet on this. For example, in the last apartment I was in the only available internet provider was Time Warner Cable.

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

Genius,
There are plenty of places where consumers cannot vote with their feet on this. For example, in the last apartment I was in the only available internet provider was Time Warner Cable.

I was going to remind him of that, but I got too hung up on why my Kate Smith singing "God Bless America" Youtube video didn't link in to my post (that's the big empty space in my post). Hell, I bet I don't live more than 30 miles east and I don't have a choice of ISP's. It's Optimum, or dial up. I can't even get Fios. And that's true for huge sections of America. Net neutrality isn't a matter of choosing between the lowest cost ISP's, or paying more for better service. It's about content providers deciding what you should see at the price they decide you should pay, and how much more you should have to pay to see what you decide is worth seeing instead.

 

[hardndslick]

I was going to remind him of that, but I got too hung up on why my Kate Smith singing "God Bless America" Youtube video didn't link in to my post (that's the big empty space in my post). Hell, I bet I don't live more than 30 miles east and I don't have a choice of ISP's. It's Optimum, or dial up. I can't even get Fios. And that's true for huge sections of America. Net neutrality isn't a matter of choosing between the lowest cost ISP's, or paying more for better service. It's about content providers deciding what you should see at the price they decide you should pay, and how much more you should have to pay to see what you decide is worth seeing instead.

Optimum's rates are always going up.
They do what ever they want. They even started charging for use of the modems. And if you call to complain they basically tell you too bad.

Its a fucking monopoly. This is what our government should be looking into.

 

[backseat]

Optimum's rates are always going up.
They do what ever they want. They even started charging for use of the modems. And if you call to complain they basically tell you too bad.

Its a fucking monopoly. This is what our government should be looking into.

Remember when we had to buy equipment from ma bell? Why is this different. The government needs to break up this monopoly

 

[genius]

Optimum's rates are always going up.
They do what ever they want. They even started charging for use of the modems. And if you call to complain they basically tell you too bad.

Its a fucking monopoly. This is what our government should be looking into.

Why don't you just switch over to Verizon?

 

[genius]

I don't recall saying that at all. I looked back at what I wrote and I don't see where that can be inferred from my words in any way shape or form. However because of how you misconstrued that I now have a better understanding of why you might not fully understand the principle of Net Neutrality. Just sayin....

It suddenly occurred to me that people may be confusing "free" Internet with something for nothing at the governments expense which is not the case. A free Internet is a place where we are all free to express ourselves and the ability to have our voice heard without fear of censorship .........

 

[genius]

......"Tyranny by the majority" is the very definition of democracy....

Not quite (and you know that). We have certain constitutional rights that cannot be taken from us simply by the majority whereas tyranny is unrestrained. Of course the constitution can be amended but that doesn't happen often as it is a process intentionally made difficult by the founders.

 

[genius]

Genius,
There are plenty of places where consumers cannot vote with their feet on this. For example, in the last apartment I was in the only available internet provider was Time Warner Cable.

Satellite internet?

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

Why don't you just switch over to Verizon?

It's not available out here. Verizon has yet to make the appropriate political donations to get approval to run cable in Brookhaven town. Our only option is Optimum. And don't forget, there are still parts of the country that don't have any broadband at all. Imagine what it'll be like when they start slowing things down on a dial up?

Awww, I'm glad my words had that effect on you. Those tears must have blurred your vision. It looks like you might have misspelled Mexican.

No, that happened when the flag I always wear draped around my shoulders so strangers know I'm a true American patriot (not one of those fake Americans who claim to love their country but but then do treasonous things like think for themselves) fell into my eyes when my pet bald eagle flew into the room.

Not quite (and you know that). We have certain constitutional rights that cannot be taken from us simply by the majority whereas tyranny is unrestrained. Of course the constitution can be amended but that doesn't happen often as it is a process intentionally made difficult by the founders.

If you're on it, follow the NRA on FB. From their perspective, we're living in a system of "tyranny by Florida college kids". It's entertaining as hell.

 

[Monty_monty]

Remember when we had to buy equipment from ma bell? Why is this different. The government needs to break up this monopoly

You were forced to buy equipment from Ma Bell, because of cronyism and government mandated monopoly of the industry. There were no choices, if someone bought and hooked up their own equipment and AT&T identified it well then they sent the feds with theft of services complaints. It be like not having the choice to use an iPhone or Android or Blackberry....

 

[genius]

..... It would be nice to have the option of being raped monthly by someone else besides Optimum.

I guess there has to be some benefit of living in Nassau as there is a choice between Verizon and Optimum.

The advantage of having another ISP is that you become the raper instead of the rapee. I sign-up for the other guy's promotional plan the minute my current guy's promotional plan ends and they want to raise my monthly charge up north of 50 bucks. Installation/Setup for the new guy is simple as the cable from the pole and wiring in the house is still there from the last time I kicked them out. For the life of me I don't understand why everyone doesn't do this if they have choice option with 2 ISP's.
The new guy during installation even puts the other guy's cable box, remote, modem and router in the nice cardboard boxes that his stuff came in for me to drop off. I don't even call to cancel as I've given up trying to negotiate with them as when I used to call up to tell them I'm not paying the non-promotional rate they would always just tell my to go pound sand; I just cancel when I drop the stuff off.

I do the same thing with the companies that provide my heating oil.

 

[Slinky Bender]

Satellite internet?

Neither satellite internet nor Verizon were available.

 

[genius]

Neither satellite internet nor Verizon were available.

You do know that the landlord does not have any say in whether or not or where you can put up a dish; the FCC regulates that and trumps (no pun intended) any lease, coop proprietary lease or condo agreement as far as antennas.

 

[Slinky Bender]

Landmarks and Coop Boards Trump that. You can say all you want that a Co-op's Proprietary Lease doesn't Trump it, but the courts have ruled that Coops can evict an "owner" or tenant for "objectionable Behavior" and the courts can't even question whether any "objectionable Behavior" actually occurred.
https://www.habitatmag.com/Publicat...-Articles/Evicting-a-Shareholder-Unilaterally
http://observer.com/2016/09/home-rule-getting-evicted-from-a-co-op-is-easier-than-you-realize/

 

[Slinky Bender]

BTW, for everyone who is in favor of free market capitalism, when this kicks in shouldn't they have to pay back the ?400 billion dollars? they got for free from the government to build the information superhighway?

 

[PerryWhite]

BTW, for everyone who is in favor of free market capitalism, when this kicks in shouldn't they have to pay back the ?400 billion dollars? they got for free from the government to build the information superhighway?

I thought Al Gore built the information superhighway with the money he saved up from his lemonade stand as a kid.

 

[genius]

Landmarks and Coop Boards Trump that. You can say all you want that a Co-op's Proprietary Lease doesn't Trump it, but the courts have ruled that Coops can evict an "owner" or tenant for "objectionable Behavior" and the courts can't even question whether any "objectionable Behavior" actually occurred.
https://www.habitatmag.com/Publicat...-Articles/Evicting-a-Shareholder-Unilaterally
http://observer.com/2016/09/home-ru...om-a-co-op-is-easier-than-you-realize[/quote]

Ok, here is a link of my own:
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/installing-consumer-owned-antennas-and-satellite-dishes



The gist of it:
FCC rules for Over-the-Air-Reception Devices – OTARD

Under the OTARD rules, an owner or a tenant has the right to install an antenna on property that he owns or over which he has exclusive use or control. This includes single family homes, condominiums, cooperatives, townhomes and manufactured homes. In the case of condominiums, cooperatives and rental properties, the rules apply to “exclusive use” areas, like terraces, balconies or patios. “Exclusive use” refers to an area of the property that only renters and their guests may enter and use. If the area is shared with others or accessible without the renter’s permission, it is not considered to be an exclusive use area.
OTARD rules do not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association or jointly by condominium owners. These common areas may include the roof or exterior walls of a multiple dwelling unit. Under certain conditions, if a common antenna is available for use by residents, then the community association or landlord may prohibit the installation of an individually-owned antenna or satellite dish, provided the signal quality from the central antenna is as good as the signal quality from an individually-owned antenna or dish, and the costs of using the central antenna are no greater than the costs of an individually-owned antenna or dish

 

[Slinky Bender]

"OTARD rules do not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association or jointly by condominium owners"

In other words, the entire facade of the building. So they can't prevent you from installing a dish INSIDE your unit. Because in co-ops and condos you own only from the walls in (unless you have a terrace).

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

"OTARD rules do not apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association or jointly by condominium owners"

In other words, the entire facade of the building. So they can't prevent you from installing a dish INSIDE your unit. Because in co-ops and condos you own only from the walls in (unless you have a terrace).

In co-ops you don't even own that. In a condo, you purchase the real property on the inside of the unit (from the walls in). In a co-op, you purchase shares in a corporation that owns all the real property, inside and out. None of the actual real estate is yours, only part ownership in a corp that owns it. The board my allow you to install a dish inside, but y0u'd may well have to ask permission first.