Heroin, drug addiction and other related topics
- Thread starter TheRicker
- Start date
some people use the term weak and strong to refer to their ability in particular area, e.g. Joe Smith is weak in math but has strong points in grammar and writing skills.
During the 70's and 80's I believe that heroin had no fentanyl in it and was cut with other crap like baking soda, starch — anything that look the same as the heroin so as to extend the weight of what was sold. Along the way down from the top to the end user it would be cut multiple times by the next level distributor with what ever was available. From my knowledge of the subject, back in the 70's, many of what were classified as OD's deaths were actually reactions to the cutting agents and not the heroin itself. Many of the guys in Vietnam had almost pure heroin and used appropriate amounts for almost their full tour w/o bad reactions. When they came back to the US, the stuff they bought wasn't anywhere near as pure (sometimes 10 to 1 cutting agents) and they had to use larger quantities to feed their addiction.
During the 70's and 80's I believe that heroin had no fentanyl in it and was cut with other crap like baking soda, starch — anything that look the same as the heroin so as to extend the weight of what was sold. Along the way down from the top to the end user it would be cut multiple times by the next level distributor with what ever was available. From my knowledge of the subject, back in the 70's, many of what were classified as OD's deaths were actually reactions to the cutting agents and not the heroin itself. Many of the guys in Vietnam had almost pure heroin and used appropriate amounts for almost their full tour w/o bad reactions. When they came back to the US, the stuff they bought wasn't anywhere near as pure (sometimes 10 to 1 cutting agents) and they had to use larger quantities to feed their addiction.
Every year the DEA publishes the list for the production and sale of Schedule II Narcotics which has allowed for hundreds of tons of opioids to be produced annually. They could have stopped the opioid epidemic any time they wanted to by moving a decimal point to the left. But no one talks about that.
There are so many things not talked about when it comes to the drug problem..
All to often young adults in their high school and college years are prescribed medications for stress, anxiety ( Xanax, for example) ADHD and related disorders (Adderal, for example). The Internist or College Campus MD may be quick to write the script, not completely getting to the root cause of the patients issue. A suggestion of seeking out behavioral health therapy may be made, but there is not enough oversight by providing practitioner.
We move forward a month or two when the refill runs out and now the college student ( in this example), finds themselves feeling like crap, not wanting to see a counselor, but chooses to self medicate by buying the benzos or focus drugs before finals, from the local drug pusher..The kids have no clue what they are getting and it only takes one instant to get them hooked. The young adult just took the long and winding path that will lead to disaster.
Down that path, they stop and realize that they went the wrong way. They are proud of themselves for admitting a problem. Their parents, if they fortunate to have ones who will love them unconditionally, pull out all stops and try to help them tackle the addiction, the disease. They continue on the same path, navigating their way through the health care system, sometimes impossible to find behavioral care that is adequate.
While on this same path, they look to the side of the road and see what they thought were their friends .. The friends are running away or whispering amongst themselves.The young adult has tears in their eyes seeing what he thought were his friends turn their back on him.. The parents have venom in their eyes, are angry and disgusted .. They have one last conversation with these selfish feeble minded people..
“ My child has a disease. If it were cancer, would you treat him/her/us differently?. How dare you!! Shame on you!!”
To be continued....
All to often young adults in their high school and college years are prescribed medications for stress, anxiety ( Xanax, for example) ADHD and related disorders (Adderal, for example). The Internist or College Campus MD may be quick to write the script, not completely getting to the root cause of the patients issue. A suggestion of seeking out behavioral health therapy may be made, but there is not enough oversight by providing practitioner.
We move forward a month or two when the refill runs out and now the college student ( in this example), finds themselves feeling like crap, not wanting to see a counselor, but chooses to self medicate by buying the benzos or focus drugs before finals, from the local drug pusher..The kids have no clue what they are getting and it only takes one instant to get them hooked. The young adult just took the long and winding path that will lead to disaster.
Down that path, they stop and realize that they went the wrong way. They are proud of themselves for admitting a problem. Their parents, if they fortunate to have ones who will love them unconditionally, pull out all stops and try to help them tackle the addiction, the disease. They continue on the same path, navigating their way through the health care system, sometimes impossible to find behavioral care that is adequate.
While on this same path, they look to the side of the road and see what they thought were their friends .. The friends are running away or whispering amongst themselves.The young adult has tears in their eyes seeing what he thought were his friends turn their back on him.. The parents have venom in their eyes, are angry and disgusted .. They have one last conversation with these selfish feeble minded people..
“ My child has a disease. If it were cancer, would you treat him/her/us differently?. How dare you!! Shame on you!!”
To be continued....
How old are you?
There was an epidemic in the 60's and 70's when pure smack was coming in from all over and experimenting with drugs was the norm for all of us. You didn't have to look very hard to find it and yeah even out in the boonies of the east end rich and middle class white kids were all trying it. We had guys in the service mailing ounces of it back here from nam. A match head was all you needed to make you all warm and fuzzy for a few hours. The French Connection based on a true story is indicative of the times.
There was an epidemic in the 60's and 70's when pure smack was coming in from all over and experimenting with drugs was the norm for all of us. You didn't have to look very hard to find it and yeah even out in the boonies of the east end rich and middle class white kids were all trying it. We had guys in the service mailing ounces of it back here from nam. A match head was all you needed to make you all warm and fuzzy for a few hours. The French Connection based on a true story is indicative of the times.
https://www.wral.com/doctor-who-prescribed-pain-pills-is-charged-with-5-counts-of-murder/19560116/
This is an all too familiar and very personal issue for me... thankfully Long Island is trying to combat it in this case
Sobriety rocks!
This is an all too familiar and very personal issue for me... thankfully Long Island is trying to combat it in this case
Sobriety rocks!
I have a kid that went through it. Started on pills ended up snorting H.
Thank God he got past it.
Clean over 5 years now.
I don't wish that on anyone. Its as a hard road. Hard on them but harder on the people that care about them.
Bottom line though. If they aren't ready to quit. They ain't quitting...
Thank God he got past it.
Clean over 5 years now.
I don't wish that on anyone. Its as a hard road. Hard on them but harder on the people that care about them.
Bottom line though. If they aren't ready to quit. They ain't quitting...
[QUOTE="hardndslick, post: 1240585,
“I don't wish that on anyone. Its as a hard road. Hard on them but harder on the people that care about them.
Bottom line though. If they aren't ready to quit. They ain't quitting...[/I don't wish that on anyone. Its as a hard road. Hard on them but harder on the people that care about them.”
It sucks the life out of you and drains you emotionally, financially and spiritually..
And the road to recovery- A life long challenge. One weak moment can have catastrophic consequences.
“I don't wish that on anyone. Its as a hard road. Hard on them but harder on the people that care about them.
Bottom line though. If they aren't ready to quit. They ain't quitting...[/I don't wish that on anyone. Its as a hard road. Hard on them but harder on the people that care about them.”
It sucks the life out of you and drains you emotionally, financially and spiritually..
And the road to recovery- A life long challenge. One weak moment can have catastrophic consequences.
Not true if my informal research back in the past is correct. — I remember reading the stats on that in a Consumer Reports book — was published in late 1970's and was about the history of addiction, from opium, morphine, H, cocaine, alcohol, tobacco, et al. A bit dated (nothing about "new" drugs such fentanyl and crack Also, many on UG below a certain age may not even know what Haight-Ashbury was) as written in 1970 but a really fascinating good read — book is online link:
https://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cumenu.htm
It claimed that although H in Vietnam was pure (not cut) there were almost no OD's there. The reason was that the stuff was pure as the supply chain of producer (farmer was local, no expensive transportation cost which included no requirement for mules and low interdiction losses) to final distributor was very short in Nam as opposed to the US where there are many in the supply chain, each cutting the stuff and not necessarily with the same cutting agent (the main requirement for the cutting agent was that it look like in texture and color the H being cut) before reselling down the chain. The OD's happened when the addicted Vets came back to the US in used the crap sold here. It stated that the so called OD's in US were classified as OD's but they were usually from reactions to stuff the H was cut with when injected into a vein.
Today, the OD's from H are actually from the fentanyl — so technically it can be said the stuff that H is cut with and not from the H itself .
Had some interesting facts, one of which the relapse rate (return to using by someone trying to quit) was an order of magnitude higher with tobacco than with H.
https://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/cu/cumenu.htm
It claimed that although H in Vietnam was pure (not cut) there were almost no OD's there. The reason was that the stuff was pure as the supply chain of producer (farmer was local, no expensive transportation cost which included no requirement for mules and low interdiction losses) to final distributor was very short in Nam as opposed to the US where there are many in the supply chain, each cutting the stuff and not necessarily with the same cutting agent (the main requirement for the cutting agent was that it look like in texture and color the H being cut) before reselling down the chain. The OD's happened when the addicted Vets came back to the US in used the crap sold here. It stated that the so called OD's in US were classified as OD's but they were usually from reactions to stuff the H was cut with when injected into a vein.
Today, the OD's from H are actually from the fentanyl — so technically it can be said the stuff that H is cut with and not from the H itself .
Had some interesting facts, one of which the relapse rate (return to using by someone trying to quit) was an order of magnitude higher with tobacco than with H.
The Lee Robins abstract is interesting but is hard to compare to the C U report which has much more detail as it is not just an abstract. Unfortunately the Lee Robins study is behind a pay wall and I'm not interested enough to pay for it.
Note that in the C U report heroin was so cheap in Nam that it was taken orally or via insufflation and not mainlined. Only when the price was very high (as in the US because of the "War on Drugs") was the much more cost effective method of mainlining used.
IDK if oral or insufflation is less additive as mainlining. If so then that could help explain why returning vets in the Lee Robins study had only 1% being re-addicted. Also the term re-addicted to me implies to me that they weren't addicted when they returned to the US — no?
Note that in the C U report heroin was so cheap in Nam that it was taken orally or via insufflation and not mainlined. Only when the price was very high (as in the US because of the "War on Drugs") was the much more cost effective method of mainlining used.
IDK if oral or insufflation is less additive as mainlining. If so then that could help explain why returning vets in the Lee Robins study had only 1% being re-addicted. Also the term re-addicted to me implies to me that they weren't addicted when they returned to the US — no?
An earlier post today by Ms Sophia Belle informed us of the passing of a companion on LI - Addiction - It has no socioeconomic boundaries, does not see color, religion, beliefs- Nothing..
It’s just so sad_ I am sure all of us know someone who has been directly or indirectly affected by this horrible scourge —
Should you happen to come across one who suffers from this horrible disease-
Be kind to them and know one does not choose to be an addict- Behavioral problems, mental illnesses and so much more can contribute to their suffering
It’s just so sad_ I am sure all of us know someone who has been directly or indirectly affected by this horrible scourge —
Should you happen to come across one who suffers from this horrible disease-
Be kind to them and know one does not choose to be an addict- Behavioral problems, mental illnesses and so much more can contribute to their suffering
Respectfully, I have to disagree a bit with your post. Although empathy is something addicts need, its also something they will play on to get their fix. Being "Nice" to them CAN lead to enabling them, they play on emotions to ensure they can get a fix or their next drink. They have to "WANT" to get help. You can't force an addict, an addict has to WANT sobriety. More times then not when you force an addict or be "Nice" to them, they slip further and further down the slippery slope of addiction.
Its an awful struggle, daily, hourly, to the minute, sometimes to the seconds. If you haven't dealt with it then you don't know what I am talking about. The battle that goes on in your mind to use, drink, or to not is a CONSTANT. The triggers are everywhere, but ultimately you beat it with your mind and the desire to want to stop. Not by getting sympathy from others, It has to come from within.
Its an awful struggle, daily, hourly, to the minute, sometimes to the seconds. If you haven't dealt with it then you don't know what I am talking about. The battle that goes on in your mind to use, drink, or to not is a CONSTANT. The triggers are everywhere, but ultimately you beat it with your mind and the desire to want to stop. Not by getting sympathy from others, It has to come from within.
Unfortunately, it’s the people that love addicts that get hurt the most. Being kind is not the same as enabling though. To be supportive, take a phone call, or just listen doesn’t mean you’re enabling them…
The key is knowing the difference between enabling and helping… you’re the sober one in the situation therefor it just should be easier to decipher.
You never give an addict money. You never let their emotions toy with yours. And you never “bail them out” of ANY situation. You have to be the strong one. Like you said, they have to WANT to be clean. ADDICTS THAT WANT HELP, LACK EXCUSES!
Addicts that want to manipulate you will have a list of excuses and explanations for everything… they are going to rehab next week and need your “help” today, they need grocery money for their kids, their boyfriends always beat them up and they need money to escape, them robbing you was totally not their fault because it was beyond their control
To all of you that prey on the “junkies” in this business… especially the guys that ensure they document their escapades and brag about how they took advantage of the girl and the situation …
Guys usually get busted or have problems for 2 MAIN reasons… they are going to “those” girls and “those” places OR they are hunting for a deal and took the TGTBT deal…You are judged by the company you keep so when the cops kick the door in, you’re cheap thrill just became a $5000 - $10000 attorney bill… or when their man emerges from the bathroom or comes in right before you’re done and robs you…
You got exactly what you paid for… and deserve!!
The key is knowing the difference between enabling and helping… you’re the sober one in the situation therefor it just should be easier to decipher.
You never give an addict money. You never let their emotions toy with yours. And you never “bail them out” of ANY situation. You have to be the strong one. Like you said, they have to WANT to be clean. ADDICTS THAT WANT HELP, LACK EXCUSES!
Addicts that want to manipulate you will have a list of excuses and explanations for everything… they are going to rehab next week and need your “help” today, they need grocery money for their kids, their boyfriends always beat them up and they need money to escape, them robbing you was totally not their fault because it was beyond their control
To all of you that prey on the “junkies” in this business… especially the guys that ensure they document their escapades and brag about how they took advantage of the girl and the situation …
Guys usually get busted or have problems for 2 MAIN reasons… they are going to “those” girls and “those” places OR they are hunting for a deal and took the TGTBT deal…You are judged by the company you keep so when the cops kick the door in, you’re cheap thrill just became a $5000 - $10000 attorney bill… or when their man emerges from the bathroom or comes in right before you’re done and robs you…
You got exactly what you paid for… and deserve!!
Unfortunately, it’s the people that love addicts that get hurt the most. Being kind is not the same as enabling though. To be supportive, take a phone call, or just listen doesn’t mean you’re enabling them…
The key is knowing the difference between enabling and helping… you’re the sober one in the situation therefor it just should be easier to decipher.
You never give an addict money. You never let their emotions toy with yours. And you never “bail them out” of ANY situation. You have to be the strong one. Like you said, they have to WANT to be clean. ADDICTS THAT WANT HELP, LACK EXCUSES!
Addicts that want to manipulate you will have a list of excuses and explanations for everything… they are going to rehab next week and need your “help” today, they need grocery money for their kids, their boyfriends always beat them up and they need money to escape, them robbing you was totally not their fault because it was beyond their control
To all of you that prey on the “junkies” in this business… especially the guys that ensure they document their escapades and brag about how they took advantage of the girl and the situation …
Guys usually get busted or have problems for 2 MAIN reasons… they are going to “those” girls and “those” places OR they are hunting for a deal and took the TGTBT deal…You are judged by the company you keep so when the cops kick the door in, you’re cheap thrill just became a $5000 - $10000 attorney bill… or when their man emerges from the bathroom or comes in right before you’re done and robs you…
You got exactly what you paid for… and deserve!!
The key is knowing the difference between enabling and helping… you’re the sober one in the situation therefor it just should be easier to decipher.
You never give an addict money. You never let their emotions toy with yours. And you never “bail them out” of ANY situation. You have to be the strong one. Like you said, they have to WANT to be clean. ADDICTS THAT WANT HELP, LACK EXCUSES!
Addicts that want to manipulate you will have a list of excuses and explanations for everything… they are going to rehab next week and need your “help” today, they need grocery money for their kids, their boyfriends always beat them up and they need money to escape, them robbing you was totally not their fault because it was beyond their control
To all of you that prey on the “junkies” in this business… especially the guys that ensure they document their escapades and brag about how they took advantage of the girl and the situation …
Guys usually get busted or have problems for 2 MAIN reasons… they are going to “those” girls and “those” places OR they are hunting for a deal and took the TGTBT deal…You are judged by the company you keep so when the cops kick the door in, you’re cheap thrill just became a $5000 - $10000 attorney bill… or when their man emerges from the bathroom or comes in right before you’re done and robs you…
You got exactly what you paid for… and deserve!!