Discussions with Providers - Staying Out of Trouble!

[hinnelton]

This is my first post. Found this site a few weeks back. Thanks everyone for so much valuable insight!

The more I read, the more I think to myself - how can I avoid my name showing up in the local paper from a sting operation or other LE entanglement?

From a little legal research it seems that the illegal transaction is what LE is looking for - via phone call, text, or verbally in person. I am in NY. Lap dances and massages (by licensed professionals) are legal. I am in search of a good-looking latina or LMP where to get a massage, lap dance, and HE. I imagine a LE decoy would not strip in front of you (nude lap dances seem common @LMP's) without reasonable assurance that you are going to pay for some illegal service - I.e. they get to bust you in the end. Now, if I ask for a dance only via phone or text, and she strips, THEN I ask for a HE - I'd probably be in the clear most of the time. Right?

Or am I missing something very obvious?

I suppose I have the luxury of looking to "stay legal" because I am not looking for FS at this time. I have been doing the AMP thing for ~10 years. But as a walk-in. I have never contacted someone from an ad. As many of you know for sure, walking in to an AMP is absolutely the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality - hence the cheap price. Looking to take it up a notch

Any comments are greatly appreciated!!

Thanks for reading.

TM

 

[BigRiddah]

I am not a lawyer. You are not a lawyer. You seek to stay legal? Ask a lawyer.

I imagine a LE decoy would not ...

Nassau County DA Rice has proved that the vice squad will do or say anything to get your name in the paper.

 

[BigRiddah]

I just noticed the title of this thread: "Discussions with Providers - Staying Out of Trouble!". Please tell us that you not consulting providers on how to "stay legal". They worry about it from their end: prostitution [NYS misdemeanor] or unlicensed massage [NYS felony] in the case of massage joints. Massage ladies and joint operators also have something else to worry about. They think that they need to be legal so get a "license" and mount it in a frame. Either they know or don't know its a fake and then they can be busted for possession of a forged instrument [NYS felony].

We worry about it from our end: solicitation or patronizing a prostitute [NYS misdemeanor].

Google up your state's penal code. I found New York's regarding this hobby.

 

[hinnelton]

Thank you for the reply. NYS law focuses on the transaction or "exchange of money or goods for sexual acts" (this is not a verbatim quote). Thus, no transaction, no bust. In NYS the transaction alone is enough, you don't even need to engage in any acts. The exchange of cash is all that's needed for the arrest.

I am not going to ask a provider to "confirm" this. They know as little or less about the law as I do, I would have to assume. Basically, I see an ad posted by God knows whom, and I must reply to the ad somehow to take advantage of whatever services are either explicitly advertised or may also be available upon inquiry.

I am trying to devise a strategy for contacting a provider and getting what I want without explicitly asking for it, until such provider is already naked

More of an equation, so to speak, to help me stay out of the snares of LE. In the end, I have no idea who I am contacting - even if someone on UG posts a review of said person. Who knows if the poster on UG is LE??

My security level is generally set to PARANOID !

 

[hinnelton]

This being my first post, I hope it's not too "me" centric. I was thinking this topic may be useful for discussion for others, as well. I hope so!

Maybe there's already a good thread for this discussion?

There are certainly more risky and less risky strategies for approaching strangers , to try to keep yourself from incriminating yourself if you're unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Thanks again.

TM

 

[Slinky Bender]

While it is 100% legal for an undercover police officer to get naked and even have sex in order to make an arrest, *IN NYC* the practice of the Districts Attorneys offices has been that they dont want to get up in front of a jury and present a police officer who has done either of these 2 things because tney believe it will ne extremely difficult tp get a conviction under those circumstances.

 

[hinnelton]

While it is 100% legal for an undercover police officer to get naked and even have sex in order to make an arrest, *IN NYC* the practice of the Districts Attorneys offices has been that they dont want to get up in front of a jury and present a police officer who has done either of these 2 things because tney believe it will ne extremely difficult tp get a conviction under those circumstances.

Good fucking point! Well put.

Anything that can give us seekers a leg up on LE is a major win. Playing right into their hands is the worst you can do. Put THEM in a compromising situation.

Thank you again for the clarification. You may not be a lawyer (tho you may be!) but that is a great way to think about it. Great rule of thumb.

TM

 

[pantysniffer]

Effectively you are convicted by the mere arrest for prostitution which can happen to with only probable cause.

Probable cause = conviction

Why do I say this..

1) arrest means losing your job and you can never replace the income

2) it means Picture in the paper and scarlet letter for life

3) it will destroy a marriage

 

[genius]

The last case that was in ND that the ADA lost (the best to my recollection as to what I read) was:
1.The was an advert in BP that mentioned massage and 80 for HH from an Asian
2. the guy booked the hh. LE did not record the call (I suspect this was BS as probably the guy just said "what is the HH rate and I want an Asian." and the ADA didn't want it recorded that the guy didn't ask for any specific services ) Please note that I am making what I consider to be a reasonable assumption as I can't believe everything wasn't recorded in a sting operation. The ADA did say at the trial that the accused said he wanted an Asian. The DA also said that although no sexual acts were mentioned it is reasonable to assume that the guy was there for sex. The ADA actually said to the judge that " the accused actually though he hit the jackpot - a massage and sex for $80"
3. The guy entered the room and handed over $80 to the decoy. No mention of any services was made by the guy.
4. As soon as the money changes hands the LE goons burst into the room , jumped on the guy and cuffed him.
5. The judge (I assume it was a bench trial) says not guilty as there was no evidence of the accused asking for sex in return for money.

Please note that even though the guy was deemed NOT GUILTY:
1. His picture and name was made available to the news media and was available online.
2. His picture and name was in Newsday along side his lawyer when he walked out of the courtroom.
3. ND strongly criticized, in the editorial column, that what the DA (Rice) did was improper and strictly a publicity stunt.

 

[hinnelton]

The last case that was in ND that the ADA lost (the best to my recollection as to what I read) was:
1.The was an advert in BP that mentioned massage and 80 for HH from an Asian
2. the guy booked the hh. LE did not record the call (I suspect this was BS as probably the guy just said "what is the HH rate and I want an Asian." and the ADA didn't want it recorded that the guy didn't ask for any specific services ) Please note that I am making what I consider to be a reasonable assumption as I can't believe everything wasn't recorded in a sting operation. The ADA did say at the trial that the accused said he wanted an Asian. The DA also said that although no sexual acts were mentioned it is reasonable to assume that the guy was there for sex. The ADA actually said to the judge that " the accused actually though he hit the jackpot - a massage and sex for $80"
3. The guy entered the room and handed over $80 to the decoy. No mention of any services was made by the guy.
4. As soon as the money changes hands the LE goons burst into the room , jumped on the guy and cuffed him.
5. The judge (I assume it was a bench trial) says not guilty as there was no evidence of the accused asking for sex in return for money.

Please note that even though the guy was deemed NOT GUILTY:
1. His picture and name was made available to the news media and was available online.
2. His picture and name was in Newsday along side his lawyer when he walked out of the courtroom.
3. ND strongly criticized, in the editorial column, that what the DA (Rice) did was improper and strictly a publicity stunt.

Good illustration. Even when you're not guilty, you're fucked. I will be as careful and calculating as can be in my dealings with providers. Trust me, not them, to watch my ass.

My original post posited a nude lap dance, which is not illegal, before asking for anything - but if all LE wants is probable cause, just being in the wrong place at the wrong time is enough. Whether or not I might be convicted of a crime in the end. I am married with kids, good job, good reputation.......

I see where peer reviews of establishments and providers come into play! Valuable service you guys are doing here

 

[jglee430]

If providers do outcall, it increases their chances of getting into a police prostitution sting. When hobbyist go to a provider's location, it increase the chance of getting sting. If you are a provider, you should require references before doing outcall. If the client cannot provide references, ask them to come to you. It is not full proof. Cops have to travel from location to location. So they have a harder time to do a round-up of escorts. As a provider, it is important not to have too much traffic to an apartment or a home. The neighbors can alert police.

 

[pantysniffer]

If providers do outcall, it increases their chances of getting into a police prostitution sting. When hobbyist go to a provider's location, it increase the chance of getting sting. If you are a provider, you should require references before doing outcall. If the client cannot provide references, ask them to come to you. It is not full proof. Cops have to travel from location to location. So they have a harder time to do a round-up of escorts. As a provider, it is important not to have too much traffic to an apartment or a home. The neighbors can alert police.

OR..

Do your homework using ***

Note from moderator: mentioning the name of another website and telling people to go there just got this user banned

 

[nyc_sw_monger]

The last case that was in ND that the ADA lost (the best to my recollection as to what I read) was:
1.The was an advert in BP that mentioned massage and 80 for HH from an Asian
2. the guy booked the hh. LE did not record the call (I suspect this was BS as probably the guy just said "what is the HH rate and I want an Asian." and the ADA didn't want it recorded that the guy didn't ask for any specific services ) Please note that I am making what I consider to be a reasonable assumption as I can't believe everything wasn't recorded in a sting operation. The ADA did say at the trial that the accused said he wanted an Asian. The DA also said that although no sexual acts were mentioned it is reasonable to assume that the guy was there for sex. The ADA actually said to the judge that " the accused actually though he hit the jackpot - a massage and sex for $80"
3. The guy entered the room and handed over $80 to the decoy. No mention of any services was made by the guy.
4. As soon as the money changes hands the LE goons burst into the room , jumped on the guy and cuffed him.
5. The judge (I assume it was a bench trial) says not guilty as there was no evidence of the accused asking for sex in return for money.

Please note that even though the guy was deemed NOT GUILTY:
1. His picture and name was made available to the news media and was available online.
2. His picture and name was in Newsday along side his lawyer when he walked out of the courtroom.
3. ND strongly criticized, in the editorial column, that what the DA (Rice) did was improper and strictly a publicity stunt.

This is f***ing outrageous! I have gone to legit massage spots and paid $80 for a legit couples massage with my wife. I was not expecting sex acts especially with my SO in the room..LOL.
I have gone to other spots and paid $40 at the front desk and got a HJ in other spots with a tip. Paying for a massage does not mean a sex act is expected in return.
There is no proof this guy expected a sex act for the $80!!!!!! DA "rice" reminds me of DA "Eliot Spitzer". Wouldn't be supprised to learn that she has paying for guys from Chip n Dales.

 

[genius]

This is f***ing outrageous! I have gone to legit massage spots and paid $80 for a legit couples massage with my wife. I was not expecting sex acts especially with my SO in the room..LOL.
I have gone to other spots and paid $40 at the front desk and got a HJ in other spots with a tip. Paying for a massage does not mean a sex act is expected in return.
There is no proof this guy expected a sex act for the $80!!!!!! DA "rice" reminds me of DA "Eliot Spitzer". Wouldn't be supprised to learn that she has paying for guys from Chip n Dales.

And that is what the judge ruled - no proof the guy expected sex. My guess this is why on that guy it "just so happened" that the phone and hotel conversations were not recorded as the guy was smart enough not to mention any extras..

 

[hinnelton]

And that is what the judge ruled - no proof the guy expected sex. My guess this is why on that guy it "just so happened" that the phone and hotel conversations were not recorded as the guy was smart enough not to mention any extras..

But... To me having my name in the paper would almost be worse. Once your name is in the paper, you're guilty in the eyes of the public. Who cares if you win the case eventually. Not to have a misdemeanor on your record is important, but at my age being a family man and all, my face in Newsday would be a f*cking disaster. Serves me right for trying to be a good citizen...lol

 

[BigRiddah]

But... To me having my name in the paper would almost be worse. Once your name is in the paper, you're guilty in the eyes of the public. Who cares if you win the case eventually. Not to have a misdemeanor on your record is important, but at my age being a family man and all, my face in Newsday would be a f*cking disaster. Serves me right for trying to be a good citizen...lol

Guess what? We're back to my first post in this thread.

Did you contact a lawyer yet? If a public outing of your name scares you as much as you claim, then contact a lawyer and get the real dirt on what is and isn't solicitation and how to protect yourself going forward. Anything else is just public message board masturbation, even if it is well intentioned and possibly actionable, it is still just jerking off.

 

[hinnelton]

Guess what? We're back to my first post in this thread.

Did you contact a lawyer yet? If a public outing of your name scares you as much as you claim, then contact a lawyer and get the real dirt on what is and isn't solicitation and how to protect yourself going forward. Anything else is just public message board masturbation, even if it is well intentioned and possibly actionable, it is still just jerking off.

I figured I would ask the board first

 

[popeye363]

IANAL, but...

Keep in mind that LE can, and often does, legally lie to the suspect. It's only reasonable: how else can an undercover operation against any kind of crime possibly succeed?

The whole charade of "Are you a cop?" "No, are you a cop?" is worthless. The AMP worker (accustomed to a different legal system, not well-educated, illiterate in English) doesn't understand this, but a hobbyist must always remember it. I've read that an Asian woman was a lure in the notorious "Flush the Johns" sting; the provider may turn out to be more knowledgeable about the law than any of us!

 

[hpon]

You won't be driving the 20 miles then as most likely they will refuse to discuss over the phone. IMHO, you also won't be doing much partaking.

I manage to discretely obtain info. If they refuse to divulge anything, I pass. They are either paranoid or just don't know what they're doing/inexperienced. Not a favorable situation. I usually obtain some info with the right approach. With no reviews or feedback, I'm not wasting my time & money. Better safe than sorry.

 

[genius]

I manage to discretely obtain info. If they refuse to divulge anything, I pass. They are either paranoid or just don't know what they're doing/inexperienced. Not a favorable situation. I usually obtain some info with the right approach. With no reviews or feedback, I'm not wasting my time & money. Better safe than sorry.

When I think about it I'm surprised that they give out any info over the phone as they don't know if you are LE or not. If I were a woman in the business I would want to see what kind of car you were driving, what you looked like when you got out of the car and when a you got in the room, I would expect some major "cop check" (the customer checking to see if I were a cop) touch-ee feel-ee with the customer checking me out 1st before I'd give specifics.

This was the modus operandi for new clients for a MILF named Lorri, that I used to see a few years back. She said she had never been busted and wanted to keep it that way.

If this causes the loss of some business - so be it. It apparently didn't cause her to lose business as if you didn't book in advance you usually didn't get an appointment that day.