Digital cable or DirecTV

[VV]

I have legit Direct TV with all the premiums plus extras* (only thing not included are the pay-per-views) and it's $86.95. I have Earthlink thru TW's lines and I'm paying 24.95 for the first year (I believe they're still offering this special) and after that it will be $41.95... Still about $15 cheaper than cable. Home internet access thru a SAT is still not up to what a land line can supply or else I'd have gotten rid of that as well.


*includes locals from other cities which comes in handy when you want to watch something an hour or two later than it airs in NY. So if you miss you favorite network TV show at 8pm (east coast time), you can watch it again at 9pm or 10pm on a central or west coast local since they're usually one or two hours behind.

The kicker is that you can (if you want to) watch everything on a DSS for free with a programmed HU card.... The cards run about $100 on the internet and the programmers anywhere from $40-300. The programs are for the most part free if you search well enough. Problem is the scripts only last a short time (usually a few weeks maybe a month - two months tops). If you join a pay site you can usually get a script that hasn't been found by "Dave" (Direct TV's personal who scan the net for illegal scripts to shut down).

You can no longer do that type of stuff with digital cable. And from what I've been told... it will never be available on digital cable because of the two way comunication between the receiver and the cable company.

 

[qb14]

Re: Re: Cable is better for HD

Originally posted by VV
And isn't DSS already offering about 20 or 30 HD channels... (including ALL the locals)?

Nooooo, I wish that were the case. DirecTV has no locals in HD at all. However, all DirecTV HD STB's will accept an antenna input, and decode Over the Air HD.

As I posted earlier in this thread:

DirecTV has HBO, Showtime, Discovery HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies and ESPN. HBO & Showtime are free to subscribers of the SD versions of those packages. The other 4 channels are part of an HD package that is currently $10.99 per month. Rumors are that Bravo and some other channels will be added to this tier at no additional charge (as all rumors, they are subject to be wrong). DirecTV also has a PPV channel.

CBS is airing one NFL game per week in HD. DirecTV is airing that game each week for subscribers of NFL Sunday Ticket. During the NBA playoffs, NBA TV did something with TNT that made HD versions available to cable & satellite operators. DirecTV put those games on their PPV channel at no charge (Cablevision didn't carry these games).

So, right now, DirecTV has 6 HD channels + 1 PPV channel + 1 HD football game on Sunday afternoon (they are using the space from a few SD PPV channels in order to air the football game).

 

[VV]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Cable is better for HD

Originally posted by Hot Dog
Your satellite installer can give you a splitter (except they have a fancy name for it that i forgot) for more than two sets. It retails for a few bucks but it is money well spent. If you use Tivo you need two hookups for the Tivo unit and need the splitter thingy anyway. I would recommend that you have a professional do it, it saves me tons of headaches

PS: You can have up to eight boxes hooked up to your system

That dish better have FOUR LNB’s (which doesn’t exist).


You can not use more than ONE splitter on a DSS system because the signal strength is cut in half each time. At most you can use only two receivers to a single dish and MAYBE four with a double LNB dish. The receivers have a polarity issue that prevents you from using more than TWO on any single LNB dish to begin with, so I don't know who you can get 8 on a single dish. If you attempt to hook up more than two receivers to a single LNB dish you WILL have problems.


*LNB's are those thingy's sticking out from the dish.

 

[VV]

Re: Re: Re: Cable is better for HD

Originally posted by qb14
Nooooo, I wish that were the case. DirecTV has no locals in HD at all. However, all DirecTV HD STB's will accept an antenna input, and decode Over the Air HD.

As I posted earlier in this thread:


So, right now, DirecTV has 6 HD channels + 1 PPV channel + 1 HD football game on Sunday afternoon (they are using the space from a few SD PPV channels in order to air the football game).

If you tune to channels 2 cbs, 4 nbc, 5 fox, 7 abc, 9 and 11 (in NY) you'll notice that there are more than one of each.... those extra's are the HD channels. You will need an HD receiver to tune those in. DSS ABSOLUTELY has more HD channels than cable.

note: If you're using anything pre P4 card and receiver than you may not have them. You may even need the second generation (P4) receivers as well.

I have two brand new (second generation P4) receivers and both have the HD local channels. All my other receivers are on older and running programmed HU cards so I can't tell you if they're available on those or not.

 

[jseah]

Originally posted by VV
Home internet access thru a SAT is still not up to what a land line can supply or else I'd have gotten rid of that as well.

The problem with internet access using satellite is that satellites are one way only. You receive using the satellite and the speed is comparable to cable, however, uploads are done through a regular phone line.

An alternative that worked real well for some (access is limited though) is microwave. In Silicon Valley, Sprint offered internet access via microwave trasmitters and a dish mounted on your house. This actually transmitted both ways (yeah, you can bitch about having a microwave transmitter mounted on your house, and how the the transmissions will turn you into a mutant), but the speed is absolutely incredible. I heard from friends that had it that the speeds were in the neighborhood of around 4-5 meg per second.

The downside is that microwaves are very directional signals, and required a line of site with the base transmitter. Of course, since these transmitters are land-based and not satellite, you do have problems with hills, trees, other building blocking your signal, so availability is extremely limited.

 

[gsxrjoe]

Originally posted by Phantom
Anybody have any experience or recommendation for HDTV on digital cable (Cablevision in my case) or DirecTV. Just trying to decide who to go with.

I work for Cablevision. Cablevision has about 10 or so channels that are offered in true HD signal. I'm not sure how many satellite offer. But sometime in mid 2004, the FCC is going to regulate that a majority of stations must broadcast in digital signal. Cablevison will be participating/broadcasting a majority of their channels in digital signal and most of them will be in HD quality. If you notice, whne you order cable from Cablesion, they're only promoting their TV packages with iO and not their regular family packages or Optimum packages. Honestly, the price of Cable vs. Satellite lean more towards satellite being more channels for your buck, but I know Cablevision's prices are going to drop signicantly in mid 2004. But if you spent all that money on an HDTV why not pay a lil extra more to get the service that offers more true HDTV signal.

 

[gsxrjoe]

BTW, I have free DSS as well. On the topic of satellite going out, it has only happened to me during very hard rainstorms and snow when it accumulates over 6 inches. During the rain, there's nothing you can do but jerk off to some porn videos because you're not going to get a good signal with those thick clouds. But as for the snow, a friend recommended this neat lil trick... Spray your dish with some cooking spray like PAM or even grease it down with oil so that the snow doesn't build up on the dish. It worked for me last season, even during that big blizzard we had. As for cable going down, it hardly happens to me unless a big 18 wheeler comes down the street tearing down all the lines in it's path.

 

[qb14]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Cable is better for HD

Originally posted by VV
If you tune to channels 2 cbs, 4 nbc, 5 fox, 7 abc, 9 and 11 (in NY) you'll notice that there are more than one of each.... those extra's are the HD channels. You will need an HD receiver to tune those in. DSS ABSOLUTELY has more HD channels than cable.

Any HD locals that you are getting are coming from an over the air signal (antenna), not from the satellite. The Advanced Program Guide (APG) in the second generation (and beyond) HD STB's (basically anything after the RCA DTC-100) integrates the local channels into the program guide based on your zip code.

You can take a look at DirecTV's HD page to see exactly what they are currently offering.

You can also look at their HD FAQ page which includes:

How does the DIRECTV HDTV offering compare to other companies' HDTV service?

When connected to an off-air antenna, all DIRECTV HD Receivers will receive and integrate your off-air digital local channels into the Advanced Program Guide. This allows you to seamlessly tune to DIRECTV® programming and off-air digital local channels using your DIRECTV HD Receiver, and provides program guide information for your off-air digital local channels.

Right now, a single HD channel takes up the same amount of satellite bandwidth as three SD channels. DirecTV just doesn't currently have the bandwidth necessary to carry locals in HD.

You may want to take a look over at the AVScience forum. It is, by far, the best source of information about HDTV on the Internet.

 

[qb14]

Re: Re: Digital cable or DirecTV

Originally posted by gsxrjoe
I work for Cablevision. Cablevision has about 10 or so channels that are offered in true HD signal.

Cablevision has HBO, Showtime, FSNY, MSG, CBS, PBS and a PPV channel in HD. They also have Fox, which is digital widescreen, but not HD. They have had CBS, PBS, Fox and the PPV channel for less than a month. I don't consider 6 to be "about 10".

They don't have ESPN, Discovery, HD Net, HDNet Movies or Sunday Ticket in HD. This past season they chose not to air NBA playoff games in HD, even though it was offered to all cable and satellite companies for free. All of these are being offered by DirecTV.

Between my roof antenna and satellite, I currently, I get to watch 3 NFL games in HD every week (CBS game on Sunday Ticket, Sunday night game on ESPN and MNF on ABC). Right now, I'm watching MNF in HD on Channel 8 from CT. Even with an antenna, no Cablevision customer can be watching this game because the HD receiver that Cablevision has deployed (Scientific Atlanta 4200HD) doesn't have a provision to accept an antenna input. No Cablevision customer can get more than 1 HD game a week, and that's only available when the Jets & Giants schedule allows CBS to air the national game in NY (like yesterday).

Cablevision currently has the opportunity to steal a lot of DirecTV HD customers if they would only add programming before the new antenna at the Empire State Building (and then at Governor's Island) are completed. Once that happens and local HD is available over the air for free, Cablevision will lose the advantage that they are currently squandering.

 

[qb14]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cable is better for HD

Originally posted by VV
That dish better have FOUR LNB’s (which doesn’t exist).


You can not use more than ONE splitter on a DSS system because the signal strength is cut in half each time. At most you can use only two receivers to a single dish and MAYBE four with a double LNB dish. The receivers have a polarity issue that prevents you from using more than TWO on any single LNB dish to begin with, so I don't know who you can get 8 on a single dish. If you attempt to hook up more than two receivers to a single LNB dish you WILL have problems.


*LNB's are those thingy's sticking out from the dish.

Actually the oval dishes (used for HD) have 2 dual LNB's (for the 101 and 119 satellites) and 1 single LNB (for the 110 satellite) that is merged with one of the LNB's from the 101 satellite. After merging the 101 & 119, the signals go into a 4x4 multiplexer (aka multiswitch) which will then feed 4 TV's in the house. They also make a 4x8 multiplexer which will feed 8 TV's in the house off of a single dish. I believe that the 4x8 multiswitches are amplified which gets rid of the signal strength issue (the signal is diminished when it goes through a multiplexer, but it is not cut in half, not even close to that). Many multiplexers are "cascadable", which means that you can connect multiplexers to multiplexers creating a virtually an infinite number of TV's that can be serviced with a single satellite dish (this is how it is done at apartment buildings with a dish on it).

The multiplexers take care of the polarity issue. DirecTV came up with an interesting way of getting extra channels onto a satellite without causing interference to other channels. What they did was to reverse the polarity of the odd numbered transponders on the satellite from the even numbered transponders.

There are 32 transponders on each satellite. Having opposite polarity between every other transponder allows them to pack signals more closely together. If you think of this as FM radio, it would be like putting two strong signals on 94.3 and 94.4. You would have both of the stations interfering with one another. However, if you could put in a switch that only allows you to pick up the odd or even decimal points, you would eliminate this interference while allowing more stations to exist. This is basically the same thing.

One single LNB can only receive 1/2 the signals from a satellite at any given time. It can either receive the stations on the odd numbered transponders, or the even numbered transponders. The STB basically tells the dish that it wants and even or odd transponder signal. Because of this, a dish with 1 single LNB can only be used to send a signal to one STB.

A dish with a dual LNB and a multi-switch can be used for many STB's. This is because the multi-switch tells one LNB that it wants odd transponders all of the time and the other LNB that it wants the even transponders all of the time. Now you have a single location that has all of the signals all of the time (the multi-switch). When the multi-switch is connected to multiple STB's it just routes the odd or even signal to whichever box is requesting it.

When you go to the oval dish, you're talking about the exact same principle, only with two different satellites. So you need a multi-switch that can handle the odd & even transponders from two different LNB's which are each receiving a signal from different satellites.

 

[Buddah]

Originally posted by VV
btw... one thing that come of most deluxe DSS systems now is an optical output (the best there is)..... Something I've never seen on a cable box.

I'm using the optical output on my Cablevision Sony iO box right now.

 

[robnotbob]

I have directv on 2 sets with every friggin channel under the sun. $99. I have DSL, $56 a month.

If I upgrade my set to HDTV, I have to buy another HD receiver box (if the set itself isnt HDTV) and a new HD dish....

Holy Shit...and there's STILL nothing on !!!

 

[Hot Dog]

QB,

Wow you really know your satellite stuff. My last post was in my office and I didn’t feel like going in to the nitty gritty details about multi-switching. I was going to do that today but you beat me to the punch. By the way the eight reciever limit is the maximum Direct TV will let you have legally. A good tool for satellite information is the Tivo community forum (hope I’m not breaking any rules http://www.tivocommunity.com ).

Originally posted by gsxrjoe
BTW, I have free DSS as well. On the topic of satellite going out, it has only happened to me during very hard rainstorms and snow when it accumulates over 6 inches. During the rain, there's nothing you can do but jerk off to some porn videos because you're not going to get a good signal with those thick clouds. But as for the snow, a friend recommended this neat lil trick... Spray your dish with some cooking spray like PAM or even grease it down with oil so that the snow doesn't build up on the dish. It worked for me last season, even during that big blizzard we had. As for cable going down, it hardly happens to me unless a big 18 wheeler comes down the street tearing down all the lines in it's path.

Thanks for the Pam tip, I'll have to climb up there and grease things up. When I lose the satellite signal my Tivo unit always has at least 12 hours of programming that I can watch before I have to resort to porn. The one downside of Tivo is that it cannot get HD yet due to the storage issues with the current mpeg format that Tivo stores programming on it’s hard drive

 

[jseah]

I think the issue with multiplexing is why when I was in temp living, every single time it rained, the TV would lose the satellite signal. If the hotel split the satellite signal amongst 100+ plus rooms, the signal reaching each room would be just low enough to be marginal.

 

[qb14]

Originally posted by Hot Dog
My last post was in my office and I didn’t feel like going in to the nitty gritty details about multi-switching. I was going to do that today but you beat me to the punch.

I wasn't going to do it either, so I cheated. I knew that I had given a description of this before in another forum that a few people had replied had been very helpful to them. Instead of writing it all over again, I found that thread and pulled the information from my replies over there. The last 4 paragraphs are pulled from old posts that I had written.

That's why my last paragraph is actually not totally correct. I wrote that before DirecTV added the third satellite. But the principle is really the same after the signal from the third satellite is combined with the signal from the second satellite.

 

[qb14]

Originally posted by robnotbob
I have directv on 2 sets with every friggin channel under the sun. $99. I have DSL, $56 a month.

If I upgrade my set to HDTV, I have to buy another HD receiver box (if the set itself isnt HDTV) and a new HD dish....

Holy Shit...and there's STILL nothing on !!!

When you decide to go this route, call DirecTV and ask for the Customer Retention department. Tell them that you are thinking about upgrading to HD and your local cable company is offering you HD programming with no upfront costs. Unless things have changed by the time you do this, DirecTV will offer you programming credit to offset some of the cost of the upgrade. They will just require a 1 year programming committment.

 

[danno25]

digital cable quality

I've had digital cable for about a year now and I'm still not happy
with the picture quality.
I don't have a dish to compare it with but the hd I get from my
antenna blows away the cable hd.
Cable shares bandwidth with internet and now voice. Alot of my standard def channels sometimes look like crappy vhs.
The service techs have been to my house 3 times and all agree the pic just isn't right. My hd channels sometimes lock up or the lip sync is off. I'll admit when it works hd can look good but it could be alot better.
I'd rather have 50 less channels so they could do full bit rate than watch the soft or defective hd I'm getting now. I have an extensive dvd collection that at 480p is better than cables 1080i.
By the way both of my televisions are xbr's. One a rear projection and the other a direct view, tuned and color correct. I'm keeping the digital cable now because it is a good value, just don't believe all the digital hype they are pushing on the public.

 

[Spaz Medicine]

Specifically which Sony XBR models?

 

[danno25]

Which xbr's

1 Sony kp53xbr300
1Sony kv34xbr910
and SAT-hd300
They all kick butt when the source is good.

 

[Spaz Medicine]

Isn't the SAT-HD300 a DTV receiver?

Those are some nice TV's you got there... if the televisions look good with a high quality source such as a DVD player, you should probably look into getting a satellite. You may lose your picture a little more often due to weather depending on where you live, but the amount of picture quality you will gain far outweighs it in my opinion.