Degrees of separation...

#41
Yes, that applies to TRS's situation. But (and I kinda hate to hijack this thread, but I'm going to make my point anyway), even that rule has minor exceptions. Like when Julie outed a former client of hers who is not only very famous, but famous for being an abusive prick and pulling guns on people. I really didn't have a beef with Julie for outing him years later after he was charged with murder.
And I did "out" her to people that I know personally that might have come across her in their pursuit of a sugarbaby. But that is different than outing someone in public (say on UG) which would accomplish nothing but creating some sort of "tabloid" gossip.

It is really hard to justify the public outing of anyone for virtually any reason.
 
#42
In the long run the $800 is meaningless, but of course there is the principle.
No word of lie this is what I would have done in the same situation. I leave with her to go down to the car and when I hit street level I tell her the following:

1) When threatened with going to your non-boss - peer in the company I would have used the fact that she thought he was your boss against her and said : "Thanks. I'm going to see him before you and demand a raise from him, now that I know he's seeing gals on the side. Then when he asks me how I know it I am going to tell him he has you and your loose lips to thank for passing on that tidbit to me that put him behind the 8-ball."

2) When threatened with the hotel security or police I follow up with: "And after I talk to the boss I am going to the local precinct and swearing out a warrant for your arrest on extortion charges and put your little black-mailing ass in jail. Its my word against yours and I'm in a better position to be believed. I know who YOU are so its not going to hard for them to track you down once the charges have been filed. And it will even help with the Mrs, because when I tell her I simply met you in a bar, we got to talking and found out we have mutual acquaintances then when you got drunk, propositioned me for cash, and I turned you down you went ballistic and threatened to tell my boss she'll believe it all the more since I went to the cops to file a complaint against you for just that.

You want to play this game baby, OK... I've seen your hand and I raise. I'm all in. I'm not the one going to jail behind this one. Let's see who has more to lose.

NEVER capitulate to a black-mailer. If this story of yours is on the level you may think you have seen the last of her but she threatened you and got paid. She'll be back if and when she needs money again. That is what black-mailers do when they have someone on the hook.
 
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#43
NEVER capitulate to a black-mailer. If this story of yours is on the level you may think you have seen the last of her but she threatened you and got paid. She'll be back if and when she needs money again. That is what black-mailers do when they have someone on the hook.

And just so you know I'm not spouting BS I will say for the record I have been in this position and did precisely what I said above.

A black-mailing tart threatened to go to my wife. I dialed my wife up, told her what was what and handed the phone to a very startled, now former, black-mailer.

Funny about karma. Seems something happened to the conniving little soul sometime shortly thereafter that was a perfect comeuppance for having such a black heart. Anyone who didn't know me better might of thought I had something to do with it, but I can assure you I would never do such a thing. I let the Fates take care of such occurences. :)
 
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franca

<color=pink>Silver</color>
#44
1) When threatened with going to your non-boss - peer in the company I would have used the fact that she thought he was your boss against her and said : "Thanks. I'm going to see him before you and demand a raise from him, now that I know he's seeing gals on the side. Then when he asks me how I know it I am going to tell him he has you and your loose lips to thank for passing on that tidbit to me that put him behind the 8-ball."
From his story, I got the impression that she knew his colleague/non-boss through some "legit" connection, and not as his sugarbaby.
 
#45
From his story, I got the impression that she knew his colleague/non-boss through some "legit" connection, and not as his sugarbaby.
Exactly.

And with all due respect, Thorn, you've never been a "corporate" guy (in the sense that I am) so you don't understand the dynamics of the environment. That doesn't mean that I'd have given her 10 grand to shut her up. I gave her what I was willing to spend on a night of sex, but didn't get the sex. To me, the math was easy. Maybe your equation is different. I don't know.

I think your advice is ridiculous and dangerous for MOST people to follow. You know how to handle yourself. Most white collar guys don't. That doesn't mean you are wrong, but 8 out of 10 corporate guys would have fucked it up if she didn't go away in 10 seconds.

I'm in a hotel where I'm known. Where they know that I'm married. Where if this blows up I need to start staying somewhere else, which I can't explain why I'm leaving a place that treats me like gold for 2 years. To try and save $800 so I can try to preserve my "manhood" or some other macho bullshit is just plain stupid.

I've been successful in business because I'm a good negotiator. I negotiated my way out of the situation, and I think I won. You think I lost because I lost $800. I regret WAY more $300 fucks that were a waste of money than that $800 that I "threw away" on an extortionist.

Think of it this way: If I do it your way, and I win, I save $800. If I do it your way, and it gets out of hand, I could lose everything. Easy choice, IMHO.
 
#46
I think Thorn was advocating a more provocative approach with the idea of shocking her and her plan to a halt. It seems TRS's read on the situation called for a more low-key approach and since it worked, it's hard to argue with it.

Eight hundred bucks is NOTHING in comparison to your reputation, family life, and peace of mind.
 
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#47
From his story, I got the impression that she knew his colleague/non-boss through some "legit" connection, and not as his sugarbaby.
Maybe I wasn't clear.

I understood that. It makes no difference to how you play this particular hand. It only matters if she believes his going to him will put a significant dent in their [hers and his "boss"] connection and if that matters to her or not.

It also plays on his finding out she is providing, which if the connection between her and the "boss" is legit plays into it.
 
#48
And with all due respect, Thorn, you've never been a "corporate" guy (in the sense that I am) so you don't understand the dynamics of the environment.
No, but in my capacity as a consultant supplying services to corporate guys on matters of corporate security items like this have come up and this is exactly the info they paid me to give to them which I provide to you now for free. I put it out there. Its worth what its worth to you.

That doesn't mean that I'd have given her 10 grand to shut her up. I gave her what I was willing to spend on a night of sex, but didn't get the sex. To me, the math was easy. Maybe your equation is different. I don't know.
Its not the math of money. It is the math of human dynamics and of the criminal mindset. You paid an extortionist. That is the last thing you do if you want one to go away. Its like feeding a puppy. You now have a "friend" for life. If you want to get ride of it you are going to have to kick it [or have someone else kick it].

Nothing in life is definate, but the odds of this woman coming back into your life somewhere down the road incresed dramatically when you parted with cash to keep her quiet. She knows where to find you and the next time she needs cash again paying you a call won't be far from her mind.

I think your advice is ridiculous and dangerous for MOST people to follow. You know how to handle yourself. Most white collar guys don't. That doesn't mean you are wrong, but 8 out of 10 corporate guys would have fucked it up if she didn't go away in 10 seconds.

I'm in a hotel where I'm known. Where they know that I'm married. Where if this blows up I need to start staying somewhere else, which I can't explain why I'm leaving a place that treats me like gold for 2 years. To try and save $800 so I can try to preserve my "manhood" or some other macho bullshit is just plain stupid.
No. As I explained it you aren't in a hotel room at all but out in the street some distance from the hotel.

I've been successful in business because I'm a good negotiator. I negotiated my way out of the situation, and I think I won. You think I lost because I lost $800. I regret WAY more $300 fucks that were a waste of money than that $800 that I "threw away" on an extortionist.

Think of it this way: If I do it your way, and I win, I save $800. If I do it your way, and it gets out of hand, I could lose everything. Easy choice, IMHO.
No, the $800 isn't the issue at all. I think you lost because you left a door open for an extorntionist to come and go as she pleases into your life.

In my incarnations as a detective sup. I negotiated a few situations myself. Some of them life and death. As the first chair for my local I negotiated contracts for hundreds of men with powerful elected officals and their lawyers. As a consultant I negotiated the prices for my services and instructed some very large companies how to handle issues of extortion, corporate espionage and internal corruption.

I would never say you weren't a good negotiator. I don't know you. I think I am a fairly good one myself though. My track record backs me up on that.

I truly wish you well with this and I hope that she never comes back to you for money again. If she does I hope you find a way [legal, of course] to make sure its the last time she does it.
 
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#49
I think Thorn was advocating a more provocative approach with the idea of shocking her and her plan to a halt. It seems TRS's read on the situation called for a more low-key approach and since it worked, it's hard to argue with it.

Eight hundred bucks is NOTHING in comparison to your reputation, family life, and peace of mind.
You are correct on your take regarding what I was suggesting.

There is no way of knowing that what TRS did worked unless she never darkens his door again.

Since she knows how to go about finding him if she wants [or has a very good idea on where to start looking] how does he, or anyone else, know she isn't coming back for another taste? He's given her no reason not to.
 
#50
Since she knows how to go about finding him if she wants [or has a very good idea on where to start looking] how does he, or anyone else, know she isn't coming back for another taste? He's given her no reason not to.
True, there isnt anything to stop her from coming back for a refill.

I meant to say this earlier on in the thread, but I kept forgetting: TRS has MAD (mutually assured destruction) on his side. He already knows who the senior exec is that she was talking to so he has something on the guy she would out him to. The incentives for the other guy to be quiet are big.


COWORKER: Hey! [Name Of Another Co-Worker] saw you at Stiffy's last night with tits and pussy in your face!

ME: The ONLY reason he saw me at Stiffy's last night with tits and pussy in my face was because HE WAS DOING THE SAME THING.

CO-WORKER: HAHAHA! Yeah, you're right! Hey [Name Of Yet Another Co-Worker], lets go bust [Name Of The Original Other Co-Worker]'s balls!
 
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#51
True, there isnt anything to stop her from coming back for a refill.

I meant to say this earlier on in the thread, but I kept forgetting: TRS has MAD (mutually assured destruction) on his side. He already knows who the senior exec is that she was talking to so he has something on the guy she would out him to. The incentives for the other guy to be quiet are big.


COWORKER: Hey! [Name Of Another Co-Worker] saw you at Stiffy's last night with tits and pussy in your face!

ME: The ONLY reason he saw me at Stiffy's last night with tits and pussy in my face was because HE WAS DOING THE SAME THING.

CO-WORKER: HAHAHA! Yeah, you're right! Hey [Name Of Yet Another Co-Worker], lets go bust [Name Of The Original Other Co-Worker]'s balls!
If you look at my original posts I say something, precisely, to that effect.
 
#52
I know this will sound stupid, but this girl wasn't an extortionist. She was wasted and desparate and leveraged a situation at the time. She may have committed extortion, but that isn't her MO in life.

I honestly believe that if I had gone the route of involving the police or hotel security in the state she was in that she might have cried rape or something like that, would could have been game over for me even if ultimately disproven.

The other thing is this. Getting her out of the hotel room was priority number 1. Once we got to the street I needed to get in the car with her and get out of the area. With the hotel valet guys out there (that all know me by name) I needed it to be quiet. Then, once we were at the ATM machine, at nearly 2am the last thing I wanted was a scene because where we were there were sure to be cops. And any cop would have seen through anything I would have said: it had "prostitution" written all over it.

And since she calmed down once I promised her $800, I really thought that was my exit price. And she took it and went quietly. She might have chosen to make noise had I backed out of my offer. I wasn't willing to take that chance.
 
#53
^^^ With no intent to rub anyone's nose in anything I would say the above makes my case.

IF, and there is an if to it, she decides to come back she will do so because of all of the above. She will be counting on getting precisely the same set of responses again.

If she follows that road she will do so because, like most people, she will continue to do a thing that has had a positive result [for her] until such time as she has a negative one.

It is the exact same behavior pattern that supports 90+% of the behavior of Johns, who continue to do something of high risk until they hit a point where they have a major negative result [lose an important relationship, social status/job, contract a disease, etc] and reach a point of catharsis, changing their behavior. Many of us never experience a negative result, so we continue until we get tired of it or die.

Such is the nature of the animal known as: Human.
 
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#54
If she got me in a hotel room again, I probably would respond the same way. But there is no chance of that.

I don't answer calls from people I don't know, so the worst thing she could do at this point is leave me a voicemail. I might not even work there anymore for all she knows. Any recorded threat would go straight to the police. There is no proof we ever met, no proof she was ever in my hotel room, no proof of anything.

I think that I was probably not clear as to what I was afraid of. I was afraid of the cops, hotel security, her screaming rape. The fact that we had a person in common gave her the balls to pull her shit, but ultimately I'm not worried that she goes to him, because that's the ONLY way she can even get to me.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that she can't "follow that road" with me, because the road is gone. She'd have to find a new road, and it won't be easy, and she'd have to stick her neck out big time, and for what? She is going to go on a cross-country extortion spree because some guy gave her $800 when she was in a drunken stupor? Had she been sober and calculating I might have done the math differently. But the girl took an hour to find a hotel she said she had been to 100 times when she was 10 minutes away. I'd bet she wouldn't even remember that she met me.

You might be "right", but there is no chance that if faced with that exact circumstance I'd do it any differently next time.
 
#55
As a follow up, I was approached by this same girl on SA.com (we both have different profiles since the dust up). But she didn't try to hard to hide who she was and I figured it out before going too far with her.
 
#57
Great to see you again, TRStory. I wonder what has happened in the Universe that have brought out back here after a decade or more! I was re-reading posts from Greekgrrl, etc. Wow, who we were back then, huh? LOL.
 
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