Are Queens/Brooklyn part of Long Island?

[billyS]

Since this comes up every now and then and derails the topic of the thread it's in, I'm creating this thread so everytime it does come up I'm dumping the posts here.

My opinion, yes geographically Queens and Brooklyn are on Long Island. There isn't a water barrier separating them, the Queens/Nassau border isn't a river.

But when people say they "are from Long Island" or "live out on Long Island" it is generally accepted that they are referring to Nassau or Suffolk.

 

[billyS]

But I know a lot of you have your own opinions on this so have at it in this thread.

 

[Supermong]

Culturally no. Grew up in Queens and lived in both Nassau and Suffolk
When in Queens, I was from Queens
When in Nassau and Suffolk I'm from LI

 

[Monty_monty]

Aside from the intrastate political subdivision boundaries; you also have the whole political peninsula vs island debate.

In 1985, all nine justices on the Supreme Court agreed, by making up a definition that Long Island, even though it's a mass of land completely surrounded by water, is not an island. It's a peninsula. After the feds tried to claim ownership of waterways between Rhode Island and Long Island, SCOTUS declared the East River a tidal straight and that because Long Island was formed by Glacial deposits.

(https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/469/504/)
Definitions:
Island:
noun

1. a piece of land surrounded by water.

Peninsula:
noun

1. a piece of land almost surrounded by water or projecting out into a body of water.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...n-t-an-island-according-to-1985-ruling-v90587

Newsday points out that scientific experts don't support this argument—geologically, the two islands are made of very different kinds of rock that formed at millions of years apart. But, as a matter of political expediency, it’s more convenient for Long Island to be a peninsula so New York can exercise jurisdiction over it (and reap whatever natural resources it can from that).


While it may have simplified interstate squabbles, the demotion to peninsula status did cause Long Island to lose out on its designation as the longest island in the lower 48 states.

 

[Raptor808]

Long Island is a sandbar and nothing else. We are all crazy for living on a sandbar.

 

[The Exiled]

Long Island is a sandbar and nothing else. We are all crazy for living on a sandbar.

South shore and the barrier islands, not the north shore.

 

[genius]

South shore and the barrier islands, not the north shore.

As I recall from my Earth Science class in HS: The North Shore is composed of all the larger material such as gravel, rocks, boulders mixed in with sand that were scraped off of Connecticut by the last glacier at it's furthest S point. When the glacier receded that material was left there. The melting glacier water washed out some of the lighter material (sand and clay) which was deposited out to make the rest of LI.

Sandbars are a more recent occurrence (geologically speaking) and are made from the ocean currents especially during storms (and although there are sandbars on NS they are much smaller than SS as the LI Sound is a lot calmer that the ocean.)

I don't know if Earth Science is even taught today (was a regents course back in the 60's), but perhaps there are ES teachers on UG that can correct or verify if my memory is correct.

 

[Monty_monty]

As I recall from my Earth Science class in HS: The North Shore is composed of all the larger material such as gravel, rocks, boulders mixed in with sand that were scraped off of Connecticut by the last glacier at it's furthest S point. When the glacier receded that material was left there. The melting glacier water washed out some of the lighter material (sand and clay) which was deposited out to make the rest of LI.

Sandbars are a more recent occurrence (geologically speaking) and are made from the ocean currents especially during storms (and although there are sandbars on NS they are much smaller than SS as the LI Sound is a lot calmer that the ocean.)

I don't know if Earth Science is even taught today (was a regents course back in the 60's), but perhaps there are ES teachers on UG that can correct or verify if my memory is correct.

I just remember that the hilly middle section was the 1st terminal moraine barrier [left behind from the last ice age glacial melt retreat]... and the second was the North shore of Long Island.

As my Regent's Earth Science teacher in the 80's called it LI was formed by a glacier taking a dump in the Atlantic Ocean and leaving LI behind

 

[Monty_monty]

Then we also have the In/On debate

 

[billyS]

Little Neck Parkway's southern terminus is at Jamaica Ave. Up until the mid 70's it was a very steep hill. It was very easy to become airborne if approached at a high speed to beat the light.

According to my 9th grade Earth science teacher that was exactly where the last glacier stopped.

 

[Bricktop]

My 12th grade teacher said it was hillside ave. Go figure

 

[NankerPheldge]

So the argument about Long Island being a sand bar isn't completely wrong. It is essentially made up of detritus from the last Ice Age. Because of that there are no naturally occurring caves on LI, nor is there any bedrock beneath it - which is why the tallest building in Nassau/ Suffolk is (what used to be) the EAB building in East Meadow.

The further you get into Brooklyn and Queens you start finding more of the bedrock that makes the Manhattan skyline possible

 

[Raptor808]

So the argument about Long Island being a sand bar isn't completely wrong. It is essentially made up of detritus from the last Ice Age. Because of that there are no naturally occurring caves on LI, nor is there any bedrock beneath it - which is why the tallest building in Nassau/ Suffolk is (what used to be) the EAB building in East Meadow.

The further you get into Brooklyn and Queens you start finding more of the bedrock that makes the Manhattan skyline possible

Then add the never ending dredging to keep the island/sandbar going.

 

[genius]

So the argument about Long Island being a sand bar isn't completely wrong. It is essentially made up of detritus from the last Ice Age. Because of that there are no naturally occurring caves on LI, nor is there any bedrock beneath it - which is why the tallest building in Nassau/ Suffolk is (what used to be) the EAB building in East Meadow.

The further you get into Brooklyn and Queens you start finding more of the bedrock that makes the Manhattan skyline possible

Dictionary.com def: sandbar A long mass or low ridge of submerged or partially exposed sand built up in the water along a shore or beach by the action of waves or currents
Bold is mine. doesn't include anything about glaciers.

 

[trader1]

This is all great stuff

Too bad UG not around 40-50 years ago—I could have skipped few classes, educated myself here and mongered much earlier in life

 

[Jaxxny]

Since this comes up every now and then and derails the topic of the thread it's in, I'm creating this thread so everytime it does come up I'm dumping the posts here.

My opinion, yes geographically Queens and Brooklyn are on Long Island. There isn't a water barrier separating them, the Queens/Nassau border isn't a river.

But when people say they "are from Long Island" or "live out on Long Island" it is generally accepted that they are referring to Nassau or Suffolk.

Long Island is distinct from NYC or from Queens ?

This debate is like the are tomatoes fruits or vegetables question.

If tomatoes are cooked and eaten like vegetables, courts allow FDA and USDA to regulate them
as vegetables even though they flower and contain seeds, meeting the botanical definition of fruits.
Nutritionally, the term "fruit" is used to describe sweet and fleshy botanical fruits, and "vegetable"
is used to indicate a wide variety of plant parts that are not so high in fructose. Somebody else will
make a convincing claim that tomatoes are berries.

Prior to the Five Boro political amalgamation of NYC, circa 1895, Queens extended through Nassau County
and included even what is now part of Suffolk County near Cold Spring Harbor, Cold Spring Hills
(not to be confused with Cold Spring, NY).

Infrastructure such as LIRR and the Vanderbilt Long Island Motor Parkway, the world's first limited
access freeway in 1904, have further integrated LI and Queens.

The case for Queens being LI is stronger than the case for Brooklyn being LI.

 

[TheRicker]

Long Island is distinct from NYC or from Queens ?

This debate is like the are tomatoes fruits or vegetables question.

If tomatoes are cooked and eaten like vegetables, courts allow FDA and USDA to regulate them
as vegetables even though they flower and contain seeds, meeting the botanical definition of fruits.
Nutritionally, the term "fruit" is used to describe sweet and fleshy botanical fruits, and "vegetable"
is used to indicate a wide variety of plant parts that are not so high in fructose. Somebody else will
make a convincing claim that tomatoes are berries.

Prior to the Five Boro political amalgamation of NYC, circa 1895, Queens extended through Nassau County
and included even what is now part of Suffolk County near Cold Spring Harbor, Cold Spring Hills
(not to be confused with Cold Spring, NY).

Infrastructure such as LIRR and the Vanderbilt Long Island Motor Parkway, the world's first limited
access freeway in 1904, have further integrated LI and Queens.

The case for Queens being LI is stronger than the case for Brooklyn being LI.

I don't know how queens being part of long island is stronger than Brooklyn being part of long island. It's literally all the same body of land. Just with made up lines that people decided on. You need a bridge or tunnel to get to Manhattan, Staten Island and THE Bronx. I've also spend a lot of time since my youth in Montauk, not on Montauk. But they used to consider anyone not born and raised in Montauk, "Long Islanders" oddly enough.

 

[Monty_monty]

So the argument about Long Island being a sand bar isn't completely wrong. It is essentially made up of detritus from the last Ice Age. Because of that there are no naturally occurring caves on LI, nor is there any bedrock beneath it - which is why the tallest building in Nassau/ Suffolk is (what used to be) the EAB building in East Meadow.

The further you get into Brooklyn and Queens you start finding more of the bedrock that makes the Manhattan skyline possible

There is bedrock under Long Island, just for the most part not as exposed as in Manhattan; Some places in northwestern Queens do have exposed bedrock but the further east and south you travel the deeper that bedrock slopes down - with lots of clay, sand and gravel in between - to hit bedrock under Fire Island is just over 2000feet.

The clay, sand and gravel makes for an excellent "water aquifer system" and depending on where you are located on long Island the depth to groundwater is different. The total depth of the Long Island Aquifer System is shallowest on the north shore (approximately 600 feet) and deepest along the south shore (approximately 2000 feet).

 

[Bricktop]

So the argument about Long Island being a sand bar isn't completely wrong. It is essentially made up of detritus from the last Ice Age. Because of that there are no naturally occurring caves on LI, nor is there any bedrock beneath it - which is why the tallest building in Nassau/ Suffolk is (what used to be) the EAB building in East Meadow.

The further you get into Brooklyn and Queens you start finding more of the bedrock that makes the Manhattan skyline possible

Well it’s sinking now. Thanks